25 year old Craftman 10 in 2HP table saw is smoking

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On Monday, September 9, 2013 8:59:38 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

So for my uses (hobbyist) and price range, I think I've settled on finding a used Jet. Any thoughts on this saw (quality and price)?
Thanks.
http://appleton.craigslist.org/tls/3995302654.html
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On 9/11/13 12:29 PM, Michael wrote:

I think $550 is high for that saw. $400 would be reasonable... just my opinion, of course. I would want to look inside and underneath before committing. That is quite a bit of surface rust on the table top. That tells me the owner never applied a protectant to the top and/or the thing sat in a very humid environment for a long, long time. I can't tell if the marks on the bottoms of the legs are mud or rust. If they are rust, I would definitely want get get a close, inside look at arbor, motor mounts, belts pulleys, the arbor tilting gears, all the bolts,etc., and with a flashlight, anywhere you can see inside the motor for signs of rust.
Normally, I would chalk up that table rust to normal humidity/non-use rusting that occurs on those iron tops. However, in the picture of his jointer, there appears to be what might be rust on the tops of the adjustment wheel-cranks.
That is all speculation, obviously, but it's cause for concern. *I* would want to carefully inspect it as I described above. I would also, most certainly want to hear and see the thing run. Best case scenario, that table top rust is just light surface rust and the rest of the saw is spotless. Worst case, the thing was in a flood. There were a lot of 'flood tools' on craigslist Nashville after the 2010 flood.
--

-MIKE-

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-MIKE- wrote:

with it. But The price and the rust gives me pause.
--
 GW Ross 

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On 9/11/13 1:55 PM, G. Ross wrote:

You might be better able to speak to the price. From what I can gather, it was about $800, new, is that accurate?
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-MIKE-

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-MIKE- wrote:

model and they threw in a Jet dust collector like the one in the picture for $100 more.
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On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 12:58:06 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

Great information, Mike. I'm trying not to get impatient, but life is hard without table saw. There are so many table saws on Craiglist I'm sure a great deal will turn up.
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On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:29:57 -0700 (PDT), Michael

Have you considered RIDGID 13-Amp 10 in. Model # R4512, I own one and am quite happy with it.
New price is $1 less than asking price of the Jet.
Ray
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On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 4:02:52 PM UTC-5, Ray wrote:

I'm definitely going to go to Home Depot and have a look. It has a cast iro n top and it's gotten very good reviews. I like the brand OK. I have a Ridg id 1200 lathe that I've turned a million things on, although I kind of long for a lathe with a little more substance.
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On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 4:02:52 PM UTC-5, Ray wrote:

According to this guy, this Craftsman saw is the same as the Ridgid R4512. Did you have issues with alignment?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921833000P?clicked=true#review sWrap
Criticism13 found this helpful joelav Jul 5 , 2012 Be careful of alignment issues First off, let me clear up some misconceptions. This is NOT a JET, Grizzly, or Rikon saw rebranded. This is NOT a cabinet saw. Even though the motor i s enclosed, the trunions are table mounted; not cabinet mounted. This is ho wever, the same basic saw as the Ridgid R4512 with minor cosmetic differenc es. This saw has 2 fatal flaws that need to be taken into account before pu rchase, and need to me taken seriously: 1 - The blade is known to change al ignment with height adjustment. This will cause your cuts to be off my as m uch as 1/16" of an inch for every 10" of wood you cut. You could have a dif ference of almost half an inch if you rip an 8 foot board. That is a very s erious problem that will ruin your work. Not only that it creates a dangero us situation. If your rip fence and blade are not in alignment, it creates a dangerous kickback situation. It cannot be fixed, it cannot be adjusted o ut. Fortunately, there are examples of this saw (and the R4512) that do not have this issue. PLEASE test your alignment BEFORE you assemble this saw. Google "alignment issues, R4512" and you will find the procedure. It is sim ple and only requires you install the blade and have a metal ruler handy. I f you saw fails this test, return it. It cannot be fixed. 2 - The fence rai l is an issue. Because it is in two pieces, when you have the fence closer than 3" to the blade, the clamping force can change the geometry of the fen ce, causing misalignment. With that said, if you get this saw without the a lignment issue, it is an excellent saw. If you are really careful clamping down the fence, you can avoid the geometry change. There are also many afte rmarket fences that fit this saw. Again, there is not as much information o ut there on the craftsman version, but it is nearly identical to the Ridgid R4512. If you want to do additional research before getting this saw, cons ider all the reviews on the R4512 as well. In addition, the blade is a thro w away. I wouldn't even bother cleaning the grease off and installing it. T his is not uncommon and most blades that come with any saw are cheap. You a re buying a saw that can provide professional results if properly set up fo r under 700$. That is a great bargain. Do youself a favor and get a good qu ality blade or two. If you decide to use the included blade, please do not judge the performance of the saw based on that. I have used it, I can confi rm it is terrible. There is no doubt about it. I hope Sears and the others that sell this saw can clear up the manufacturing issues with the trunions. Craftsman has taken a beating lately, and this saw is a real gem and could restore the faith in the brand that our fathers and grandfathers once had. I cannot stress this enough - TEST your saw for the alignment issue. It is extremely common. It cannot be fixed, and it will ruin your work and possi bly create a dangerous kickback situation.
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On 9/11/13 6:03 PM, Michael wrote:

One major advantage to newer saws is the riving knife. It acts as the splitter and never comes off the saw which is nice when you're not making through cuts or when you need to rake the guard off for whatever reason.
I would thoroughly investigate that alignment issue because that would be a deal breaker. If it's something that can be fixed in your first major set-up and alignment-- in which you adjust the blade, slots, and fence all parallel to each other-- then no problem. But if the trunnion mounts are not adjustable/shim-able then it's no better than a $200 bench-top table saw.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:17:58 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

That alignment issue scares me a lot, but it's 10 percent off right now and I've got a 50 dollar gift card somewhere, so that brings the price to $450.00.
If I have the option to return any saw with imperfect alignment, this might work out.
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On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 19:16:04 -0700 (PDT), Michael

I have had the saw for over a year. It is a hobby but I have ripped some 2" maple and made a fair number if cuts. Out of curiosity I measured the alignment by using a digital caliper to measure the distance from a tooth to the far end of the miter slot. I got measurements that were repeatable within +/- .001". The reading at the front and back of the blade were the same. So I would say the alignment is within .001". This is good enough for woodworking.
Another use I have is making segmented bowls. With 12 segments there are 24 cuts per ring. Any error in the cut is cumulative. Initially I was using miter saw and the rings would not close. They were off by a degree or more. I built a sled that allows me to tilt the blade to cut the segments. I dial in the desired angle, cut the segments and they fit with no discernible gap. No adjustment needed.
HD is good about taking stuff back. If you get a bad one just return it. Any product will receive some negative reviews but 181 out of 200 (90%) reviewers recommend this product. And you know what to look for.
I got 10% off because Lowes and Home Depot are very generous in giving a discount to all disabled veterans.
Ray
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On 9/11/2013 9:16 PM, Michael wrote:

Price should never trump safety!!
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On 9/11/2013 6:03 PM, Michael wrote:

grease off and installing it. This is not uncommon and most blades that come with any saw are cheap. You are buying a saw that can provide professional results if properly set up for under 700$. That is a great bargain. Do youself a favor and get a good quality blade or two. If you decide to use the included blade, please do not judge the performance of the saw based on that. I have used it, I can confirm it is terrible. There is no doubt about it. I hope Sears and the others that sell this saw can clear up the manufacturing issues with the trunions. Craftsman has taken a beating lately, and this saw is a real gem and could restore the faith in the brand that our fathers and grandfathers once had. I cannot stress this enough - TEST your saw for the alignment issue. It is extremely common. It cannot be fixed, and it will ruin your work and possibly create a dangerous kickback situation.

You are not going to want a saw with alignment issues!!!!!! THINK OF YOUR SAFETY.
Far better to spend more for a better saw. If you cannot afford one now, save until you can.
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On 9/11/2013 12:29 PM, Michael wrote:

$550 for that particular Jet seems way too much. Don't get me wrong, the older Jets (blue paint job) are strong workers. Fact is that about five years ago I scored a Jet (same vintage) cabinet saw at a local garage sale for $400. Even came with a great aftermarket fenc.
Heavy sucker that works like a charm, tweaked it so everything is dead nuts on and it stays that way. For that $550 you should be able to do better, even if it's an older vintage Unisaw.
I wouldn't give him more than $350-$400 for that saw on a good day.
Bottom line: Quality is there but the price ain't
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On Sun, 8 Sep 2013 19:26:20 -0700 (PDT), Michael

Forget the warranty and *particularly* any extended warranties. Use that money to buy a better saw. IMO, if you go cheap, you'll be kicking yourself for a long time. Buying he best only hurts once.

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On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 21:23:17 -0700, Lew Hodgett wrote:

I've got a 1948 Delta with a motor that's so heavy I can barely lift it. Some of that is my age but it's still one *heavy* motor.
I was told by a guy who worked at a motor place that if it ever failed, I should get it fixed instead of replacing it because the newer motors didn't have anything like the torque of the old ones.
I don't know if he was correct or if this applies to the OPs motor. Just something to consider besides cost.
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On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 16:31:26 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

A new one might not have the weight of an old one and may not be as efficient (or more) but HP is HP. (HP == torque*RPM - RPM is constant).

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On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 18:10:21 -0400, krw wrote:

Offhand I don't recall what the HP rating is, but I bet it's for real and not "peak developed HP" :-).
I wonder if the heavier motor has more inertia to keep it going through momentary tough spots?
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On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 15:59:04 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

The point being that, for motors, HP is defined as torque*RPM (times some constant - 5550 if torque is in ft-lbs). SO for a given HP, (real) torque will be the same for all motors of the same RPM (which 60Hz induction motors used in saws will be).
Who knows what "peak developed HP" is? I think it's also called "Sears HP". ;-) I really like their 3.5HP shop vacs. Those things really suck! ;-)

Not enough to mention. Most of the weight difference will be in the stator and housing, anyway. Again, a heavier motor may be more efficient because it may have more copper in the windings, something a newer motor is certainly going to try to minimize. It's more likely that the older ones are under-engineered[*], though.
[*] Any fool can build a bridge that stands. It takes a real engineer to make a bridge that barely stands. ;-)
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