220v conversion question

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I don't know why they charge so much for electricity. They get it all back.
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On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 03:47:21 -0700 (PDT), DLB

Technially, on a 220 volt dedicated circuit there is no reason there has to be 2 fuses.. It's just that "american" 220 is center grounded so for safety reasons each side is fused to protect againt shorts to "ground"
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Only if you are talking about a 240V/3PH/60HZ delta configuration with one phase being tapped for the 240V.
Having said that, if you pick up a ground, you will wish there are two (2) fuses in the circuit.

AKA: 3 Wire Edison. (120/240V/1PH/60HZ)
Totally different animal.
SFWIW:
For years, the automotive industry operated the electrical control systems of factory automation machines at 120V derived from a transformer wired to the 480V/3PH/60HZ supply power.
This 120V control power was purposely NOT grounded
What they would do is connect two (2), 120V pilot lamps in series across the transformer with the intermediate wire between the lamps solidly grounded.
Under normal conditions the lamps would barely glow since they were only seeing 60V each.
If one side of the circuit picked up a ground, one of these lamps would go out and the other would go to full illumination since it was now seeing 120V.
This indicated which side had picked up a ground, but did not stop production.
The repair could be preformed on scheduled down time.
Automotive electrical control panels require a screw driver to gain access.
The only person allowed to have a screw driver was an electrician.
Thus if you made unauthorized entry into a control panel and got knocked on you ass, you probably got fired for violating company policy.
Lew
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On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:48:17 -0600, Chris Friesen

Not likely. Typical dual voltage motors are set up such that two windings are in series for 240v and in parallel for 120v. So regardless of the supplied voltage, the voltage drop and current in each of the windings is the same in either case. In other words, the working parts of the motor don't know the difference between the motor being connected to 240v or 120v.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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Doug Miller wrote:

Woah up a second here!
That's true if the device is built to run off of 240 Volts.
But if the internal resistance is the same as it was in the 120 device, it will draw TWICE the amperage - until it "opens".
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120/240 motor from 120 to 240. I don't think anybody was suggesting operating a 120V motor at 240V.
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Dual voltage motor - correct.
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DLB wrote:

Very good. With the net, one never quite knows...
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Slightly OT but relevant.
I am a no nothing in terms of electrical. I can properly wire a plug or wall sockets but don't understand the flow, grounding, etc. Just never studied it. But on a related topic, I have always wondered why my planer and my big sander have a 220 line to run the big moter and a 110 line to run the feed table. I asked on of the Mfg's if there was a way to wire the 110 from the 220 and they clearly ran and hide, saying don't ask us.
So I ask here. Is there some way to "properly" do this? Can I put an onboard converter or something. I would really like to eliminate the two cords scenario because I am constantly juggling machines because of my space restrictions and it is a big hassle with two plugs.

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On 09/01/2009 11:55 AM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

Sure, but it might not be worth the hassle.
To do it properly you'd need a 3-conductor plus ground cable, with a 4-prong plug. Two hots, neutral, and ground. Bring the main cord into a junction box mounted to the tool somewhere. In the junction box split the wires out appropriately to the two motors. The main motor then gets driven by the two hots, while the feed table gets driven by a hot and the neutral.
The ampacity of the conductors must be suffient to provide for both the feed table and the main motor, so you'd probably have to increase the conductor size. You'll likely need to add a special 4-prong receptacle, also wired with large enough conductors.
It's probably easier to just zip-tie the two cords together so that they don't get tangled.
Chris
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SonomaProducts.com wrote:

They say "don't ask us" because of the the revised NEC Code requirements discussed in the upthread subthread sidebar discussion.
In all likelihood previously they would have simply used the three-wire appliance-style arrangement and all would have been happy; now they can't do that and as Chris explains the hassle of the four-wire connections they result was they probably decided simply the two-cord solution was the easiest for them and still meet current Code.
As for what to do; depends in large part on whether you're in a situation where your shop does have to be current-Code-compliant or this is a personal shop. I gather your situation is probably the former so you probably don't want to take the expedient way out and so the only real choice is probably to either live with it as is or rewire to the four-conductor supply.
How much of a pain and what you would have to do physically is dependent on the shop wiring extant now as well as the sizes of the various motors involved.
In short, as Chris says, you can but it may not be worth the hassles despite the other existing hassle.
--
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Yes, there is. How easy it will be depends on whether the 240V circuit (not "220") supplying the machine has a neutral or not. If not, you'll need a new circuit.
Assuming that you have a four-wire 240V circuit available (two hot legs, neutral, and ground), install a 4-conductor receptacle on that circuit, and a 4-conductor plug and cord on the machine. Connect the planer motor to the two hot wires; connect the feed-table motor to one of the hot wires (it doesn't matter which one) and the neutral wire. Connect the ground wire to the frame of the unit.
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Thanks guys. This is my home shop but I don't want to do the 4 wire work so I guess I'll live with it. It just seems kind of silly. Maybe I can find some 220 fractional hp motors to run my feed tables.

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SonomaProducts.com wrote:

How large _are_ the 110 loads? To keep the one particular individual off my back note I'm _NOT_ telling you to do this but there still _is_ the unmentionable solution... :)
--
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I really don't even understand electrical concepts to know how to determine what the load would be. If I can string a few wires together to get juice where I need it I am capable but only venture into such issues when there is no question of how to proceed. Swapping out a switch, changing a plug to match a socket, etc.
No worries, just a curiosity for now. Would like a better solution but the best solution is to get a bigger shop and be able to leave machines in place, pulg in once and forget.

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Two ways. First, you can use a 220/110V transformer (do the voltage conversion the hard way). Second, you can note that the motor may have series-connected windings for 220V, one of the motor internal wiring taps has 110V on it when the motor is operating. That means your light goes off when the motor is switched off, of course...
My preference would be to use a 12V halogen worklight, and get the 220 to 12V version of transformer for it. The 12V lamps are more vibration-resistant, and you have to have the transformer anyhow (no real difference in cost, though some suppliers might not price it that way).
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On Sep 1, 1:08pm, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

5ma on the heart will kill you.
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