Theory hell, that's just the way it has been for over 30 years.
Measured values at any point in the system are not relavent to a rating standard.
Lew
Lew
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14 years ago
220 V table saws and ground
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14 years ago
Other than I wasn't speaking of them but referring to measured... :)
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14 years ago
Do any of you electricians recall the OLD way of wiring a double pole switch from the knob and tube days. Yup, fellows, there actually is an alternate way to wire a DP circuit.
Nonny
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14 years ago
My Dad bought an older home and built a detached 2-car garage around 1950 or so. I vaguely remember when the garage was being built and watching the electrician wire it for a single light and one plug, controlled from a switch both at the house and at the garage/
As a teen, later on, I bought a little booket at Sears, called, "How to wire a house," which I thought was an incredible insight into the secrets of wiring. However, something never made sense to me until later on, when I was wiring homes myself as a means to continue college. There were only two wires running between the house and garage. It finally dawned on me why in the summer, the light wasn't as bright and why it would dim so much when I'd plug a drill or small saw into the duplex receptacle.
I investigated and for the first time, noticed the bare wire running from the old switch down to a rod driven into the ground. That was the light leg and when it was summer in MO, it was usually dry. The electrician had saved probably $2 in wire, back then, deciding instead to use the earth as a ground/neutral.
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14 years ago
Code... hmmmmm. Naw there was no ground at all in the box that I spliced into. ;~) The dryer and shop share the same circuit. If I ever move I will yank the external addition.
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14 years ago
I reecall seeing the floor finisher using bare ended Tomex as an extension cord in Elgin.
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14 years ago
formatting link
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14 years ago
ROMEX
I guess he might have Tormex'ed the wire ends to make them pointy so they would go in easier. ;~)
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14 years ago
Do not use the backstab connectors!
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14 years ago
Ok. Thank you. Switch, Motor Switch. Motor. Switch. Motor b
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14 years ago
Leon wrote: ...
I bet there is...(a ground that is)... :)
If it's 3-wire dryer outlet the "neutral" will actually be on the ground connection conductor...so when you tied your third to it it is also ground. I'd wager that's what you'd find if you were to check the circuit connections in the panel.
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14 years ago
Nope- it's done from the front. Just strip the wires back 3/4 to
1" or so and twist the bare conductor into a loop. Flatten the loop a little bit to make it just skinny enough to fit through the Bakelite outlet face and it makes a very good, serviceable, male plug.- Vote on answer
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14 years ago
In _very_ high likelihood those bondings are already done w/ the mounting but never hurts to check or run a separate. Logically, while you're at it you would run 3-wire from the switch to the motor at the same time you're doing the rest and tie the grounds together.
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14 years ago
You are probably right.
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14 years ago
Neutral is connected to an earth ground at the service panel but the neutral and ground wires play different roles in the circuits once you leave the main panel. The neutral carries current. It s nominally the return path, but because we use AC, the current flows in both directions at different times. The ground should never carry current in normal situations. It is there for protection.
In a three wire 220v set up, you have two hot wires and a ground. The two hot lines are in opposite phase, giving the 220v volts.
If you are re-wiring a tool to run on 220, you should also change the plug to one rate for 220. They have a different prong pattern so you can't easily plug them into the wrong circuit.
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14 years ago
... Sigh...
It's a 3-wire service dryer circuit in which the NEC previously allowed the 120V service neutral to be carried by the ground conductor.
For 240V service w/o the need for the neutral, yes, virginia there is no neutral.
This is/has been a sidebar conversation about the circuit Leon pigtailed off of to power his saw from the dryer outlet; hence it does have at the dryer connection a neutral for the dryer motor lights, etc., that uses the ground connector per the previous NEC exception that allowed such while it does serve as protective ground for the saw.
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14 years ago
My 220 consists of three leades, two "hot" and one "neutral" but the newest setups (for household appliances 0 like a dryer) include a separate equipment ground and use a four-conductor plug.
As I understand it, a short in your saw could conceivably employ you as the ground (wet shoes, damp floor and a short to the frame).
I may be wrong, but I wire my 220VAC equipment with all four conductors and do have a ground stake for the shop power distribution box (about a 100 feet from the mains I ran it from at the house).
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14 years ago
If you only have three leads, one is a ground not a neutral. Often, like older driers and range installations the ground is used as a neutral, but as you note, this is no longer allowed. Circuits like air conditioners (and saws) that don't need a neutral can still use three wire circuits but the third wire is a ground, not a neutral (it carries no current). Equipment grounds have been required for at least fifty years.
Which is why the equipment ground is a requirement. There would be no neutral current so a neutral conductor is not required.
The *only* place neutral and ground may be (and must be) connected is at the entrance panel. Neutral and ground must be separated everywhere else. If your sub panel is separate from your entrance panel it shouldn't have a separate ground stake, though perhaps it's OK if a *large* enough ground wire connects the two. I'm not sure about this detail because it's easier to not have the ground stake at the sub. If there is a nearby lightning strike you want the house to "ride the wave" (one ground point) not invite the current through your house (two grounds).
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14 years ago
On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:22:32 -0800 (PST), the infamous sibosop scrawled the following:
IANAE, but I'd ground the _motor_ if I were you, not the top. The top isn't electrified. ;)
I did all my own 240v wiring in this shop (with attached house), then ran 25' cords from each of the tools to the wall outlets. I can move them around any way I like, any time I like. It's all 12/3 going to the outlets and 12/3 cordage, with NEMA L6-20 twistlocks.
Dina came with a whoopass 10/3 cable (thicker than my thumb.) The Griz G1012 BS and Griz G1029 DC are each 2hp, so 12/3 has plenty of current handling capability.
-- To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive. -- Robert Louis Stevenson
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14 years ago
On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 12:27:44 -0600, the infamous "Leon" scrawled the following:
The scary part of that is that it means your 4 homes don't have any kind of local grounding rods. It's all at the pole!
If I were you, I'd instantly run one.
Good news: when the temp hit 29 this afternoon, my water started running again! I'll leave the pumphouse light on during this cold snap, and run water when I get up in the middle of the night to run it in the other direction.
-- To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive. -- Robert Louis Stevenson