Youths on Front Garden

[TheScullster]

Hi all (copy from post to uk.legal.moderated which hasn't appeared in my reader)

As the title really. What rights do youths have (or anyone else for that matter) to walk onto my drive-way/lawn and/or approach the house? My understanding is that service personnel, posties and the like have some kind of right of passage but what about others? The question arises due to local oiks playing football in the street and using our garden as an extension of the pitch. This becomes a major issue due to the fact that my wife works nights and our bedroom is at the front of the house. Also, we are trying to improve the house and garden generally, so don't take kindly to this behaviour. Some people seem to accept this arrogant youth culture as a part of modern society, or at least appear to. I have no problem with careful removal of a ball that is accidentally kicked in (preferably as they head to the excellent local park and fields).

Also, we have a fenced rear garden. My wife found one of these characters retrieving a ball from there the other day having climbed over the 6' fence. Again, what rights do they have to be there and what action can we reasonably take against them (presumably as trespassers). Neither my wife nor I are the confrontational type (unfortunate though this can be at times), but we are eager to nip this in the bud if possible. Having a short fuse for this sort of thing, catching them when I am carrying a blunt (or sharp) instrument could lead anywhere. I am considering discussions with parents as the father of the local child is a nodding aquaintance, but would rather know the lie of the land. The local child is one of the most insolent of the crowd and judging by the state of their garden, the family have no interest in keeping the area in good order for the benefit of all. So trampling of plants in our garden is unlikely to register as an issue as far as the parents are concerned..

TIA

Phil

[Huge]

[dom]

Implied right of access is what allows people to walk up your garden path to knock on your front door. You simply tell/write/email whoever to remove the right.

A fence around your front garden sounds a sensible step, but above all

- talk to people. And I mean talk, not go on the offensive. Start wih the most reasonable of them and *ask* if he is *willing* to do things differently. Most kids are - in spite of what the tabloids say about youth culture. Only if that fails start with parents, schools, local police etc.

[Clot]

Appeared in UK Legal Moderated now.

[cynic]

Plant Pyracanthus as a boundary and inside your back garden fence. You are unliklely to have much problem once it establishes

[TheOldFellow]

Hedge: Pyracanthus. Worked for me. Nothing else did.

You are entitled to ask a trespasser to leave your property by the shortest route. However, it's worth talking to plod too, they may be interested in helping you. Local councillor is another good one. MP is probably just counting he expenses....

R.

R.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "TheScullster" saying something like:

Toss the ball back over the fence, with a hole in it.

"Unfortunately, the ball landed at my feet just as I was plunging a fork into the veg patch."

[TheScullster]

"Huge" wrote

"won't sell to civilian market"!

Phil

[Mike]

To actually trespass .. don't you actually have to damage something .... I understood if I stood on someones driveway, it was not technically trespassing until proved I was damaging it ?

Mike P

[TheScullster]

wrote

Thanks Dom please see insets

And if withdrawal of this right has no effect, what action can be taken? Presumably at this point, any foot-fall on the property represents trespass?

There is already a 4' hedge around the perimeter although there is a wide drive access. The boundary with the neighbours has some very small shrubs and the neighbour's perimeter is open. Until the shrubs have grown between us and neighours, it will be difficult to impede passage from that side. The driveway isn't long enough to accommodate swing type gates with the car in front of the garage :(.

As my wife totally lost it when she discovered a lad in the back garden (he'd climbed over a newly-ish constructed 6' fence), the initial softly-softly approach may have gone by the way side!

Phil

[Man at B&Q]

Shortest *practical* route.

[Frank Erskine]

Trespass is NOT a criminal offence, except on certain types of property, such as railways and MOD land. Hence all those signs you see around 'Trespassers will be prosecuted' are meaningless.

IANAL.

[martin_pentreath]

The practical effect of trespass not being a criminal matter is that the police won't be interested. In theory as a civil matter you can go to court and get an injunction to stop the kids (the relevance of the lack of damage is that you won't get any compensation on top, because there is no loss to be compensated). In reality that would be ridiculously expensive and impractical for this sort of thing.

In other words unless things escalate to the point where perhaps criminal damage is happening, the legal process is of no help to you. You need to sort it out by 'diplomatic channels'.

If they ARE trampling on your flowers and breaking your fence panels then that is criminal damage and you may be able to get the police interested. However, they're probably too busy doing important things like killing protesters.

Cheers!

Martin

[sm_jamieson]

House near me has a pair of gates that have several sections and concertina back on each other. I think there are rollers to stop the hinges sagging. Might be an option. Simon.

[ARWadsworth]

I think Dom was correct about trying the polite approach first. A one off incident with someone in the back garden should not matter.

Anti-vandal paint may work on the back fence. It buggers up clothes and they will not climb it twice.

A temporary fence (wire type) between you and the neighbour at the front may help until the hedge has grown.

I wonder if you can get folding gates for the driveway?

Adam

[DAVE]

Oh yes? Try put your foot one inch onto an MP's property,(or some TV star/Football star/pop star etc etc) and you will most likey get either private security and/or plod with blue flashing lights ther within seconds !!! Every other mere mortal just doesn't even get a reply from the plod when some local spotty oink is creating hell on your property ... try it and find out for yourselves. Shoot them because the local residents (and most likely, their parents, if they have any) would be more than grateful. Anyone that doesn't agree obviously doesn't have to put up with the s**t these drunken brats create for ordinary innocent folk. Lets face it, the plod don't care, mainly because they are busy protecting the rich and (in)famous. A garden spray full of petrol and a convienently placed match may help rid of the pests. Nail the buggers up I say !!!!!!!

Dave W

[Owain]

They're American so just knock up a letterhead for the East Cheam University Police Department and ask for a sample.

Your post in ulm did go through and I answered it there; my suggestions included a pyracanthus (etc) border below the vulnerable fence.

Owain

[Clint Sharp]

In message , TheScullster writes

What worries me more is the line that says they sell to law enforcement agencies, I hope my local force don't see that.

[Harry Bloomfield]

TheScullster presented the following explanation :

My suggestion would be to add some of that open wooden lattice on top of the 6' fence - it not only acts as a deterrent because it would break if there is any attempt to climb it, but makes lots of noise as it does so.

[Harry Bloomfield]

ARWadsworth brought next idea :

A sliding gate?