Wiring a light at a ceiling rose

[extreme_one]

Hi - wonder if anyone can help. I have recently moved into a house and am replacing the light fittings

- something that i have done many times before, but this one in confusing me (and before you ask yes I was stupid and forgot to make a note of where everything went on the old fitting - I know!)

I have the following cables coming from the ceiling rose-

2 groups of red/black/earth 2 groups of black (presumably switched live although not marked as such) and earth 1 red/earth

I have tried to wire this as a normal loop circuit to the light fitting, but this means that the next light on the system doesn't work (in the kitchen). In fact whatever way i wire this in something doesn't work or puts two lights on one switch.

Any answers on a postcard gratefully received

Thanks

[Lobster]

Can you define exactly what you mean by "groups" here?

David

[F]

A digital camera is your friend...

[Staffbull]

digital camera and photobucket, a picture paints..............

[Phil L]

1) Draw a diagram with mspaint 2) click this link, click 'browse' find your saved picture, click 'upload'. 4) copy the link, post it here.

p-o-p

[extreme_one]

hi

by groups i mean together > extreme [e-mail] wrote:

[auctions]

Open up the switch which controls it and see if you can tell which wires run to that. That will give you more of an idea what's going on. You can also use a multimeter to measure the resistance between the cables in the switch and the cables in the ceiling rose to identify which ones connect with which.

A

[extreme_one]

[John Rumm]

Firstly, how many switches control this light position?

If you take a peak behind the switch, how many wires are connected to it (ignoring the earth)?

Do the cables with red and earth or black and earth appear to have other wires that have been cut off?

[TheScullster]

wrote

Have you wired roses in this house before? If not then it may be wired differently, depending on age. I have a 1970s build in which lives are looped around switches and neutrals around ceiling roses (rather than the now accepted loop in L/N/E arrangement). I believe that this was perceived as cheaper at the time.

Does this help to make sense of your install?

Phil

[extreme_one]

Firstly, how many switches control this light position?

there are three switches that control the central light in the rooom (one by each of the doors) and also a passage light and side lights which are on the same loop as well as a further downstairs light in the kitchen which is affected by this.

Do the cables with red and earth or black and earth appear to have other

There d> extreme [e-mail] wrote:

[extreme_one]

not the roses in this house

not 100% sure, do you meen that all the neutrals are connected together and into a terminal box rather than the lives???

[TheScullster]

wrote

Basically this means that:

Modern system has live, neutral and earth conductors all in one cable looping power between ceiling roses. The live from the ceiling rose is then taken down to the switch (ideally as

2 core and earth with both cores red) and returns to give you the switched connection for the light fitting at the ceiling rose. In this way you would typically have 3 cables in the ceiling rose unless it is the last in line...these would be power looped in, power looped out to next fitting and switch cable as above.

My install has singles and earth all over. This has neutral and earth cable looping into each ceiling rose (2 cores only). Similarly the mains live feed loops from switch to switch with a switched feed going from each switch point to the appropriate light fitting (again this is in 2 core live/earth).

Phil

[John Rumm]

Ah, ok that may complicate things...

Sounds like they are proper "Single and earth" cables then.

My guess would be that you have two way switching wired in a "nonstandard" way (i.e. done differently from how it would typically be done these days).

Next trick is going to be trying to identify where each wire comes from and goes to. Have you got any test equipment like a multimeter?

(or failing that, any other lights wired in the same way that you could look at)