Will this work? (power from neighbouring flat)

[Gamma Eridon]

Good Evening,

This is my first post to the group so please be gental :-) sorry for any spelling mistakes/bad grammer in advance.

I live in a basement flat and above me there is a vacant shop premises (two rooms) and above that another flat that is rented out.

Anyway the power is not connected at the moment in the shop (I think the company fuse??) is missing. There is a meter and two cu's (one for the central heating I guess).

One of the builders tendered want's mains, so this is where my question begins.

I have mains in my flat (obviousley :-) )

It has been suggested that an extension leed can be used, one end plugged into a 13a socket in my flat and at the other end a leed made (with two 13a plugs) one plugged into the extension drum, the other into one ring main in the shop premises.

Would this work?

What if the are on another phase upstairs?

Any pitfalls I shold look out for? (the builder has promised a tidy sum for power :) )

Is it legal?

Is it safe?

Any help appciaed before I agree.

Cheers!

[Dave]

Am I correct in saying that you want to use (make?) an extention lead with a

13A 3 pin plug on either end, one end going into an extention drum which goes to your flat, whilst the other end of the double ended extention will go into a socket of the ring main of the property downstairs ???? I certainly hope that I am wrong. If that is what you intend doing ... IT IS ABSOLUTELY LETHAL. This is because if anyone unplugs the plug that will go into the socket downstairs, THE 3 PIN PLUG PRONGS WILL BE LIVE AND COULD KILL. Why not just run things directly from the extention drum? PLEASE, never use a lead with a 13A 3 pin plug on each end. Dave

[Rod]

And no-one expects sockets to be live when the company fuse is not present. Which they would be in your 13A-to-13A scheme.

Make certain that an extension lead is plugged into an RCD, not directly into the socket.

[Gamma Eridon]

Yes, this is what the builder suggests, though the max load will prob not exceed 15amps.

These sockets are not connected to the outside electic though, does this make a difference?

He wan'ts to run a an heater as well.

OK, i'lll not agree, but im interested to here more why it won't work.

Cheers!

[Rod]

If he wants to run a heater, I'd be getting very worried about the load he is intending to put on the cable. You have a socket rated at 13A. If he tries to run a 3KW heater plus other things, that will overload your socket (and his plug and, probably, cable). And could be dangerous.

And Dave didn't say it wouldn't work.

He said:

IT IS ABSOLUTELY LETHAL.

and

THE 3 PIN PLUG PRONGS WILL BE LIVE AND COULD KILL.

[meow2222]

most probably. Whether its a wise idea is another matter

I thought you said power was disconnected

I dont know if youre joking or not - but yes, various basic safety, legality and suability pitfalls.

no

no

sensible thing would be to provide builder with a plugged in extension lead, of the normal legal kind. Good long length, 13A rated, with 4 sockets on. Wha youre suggesting is idiotic

NT

[Gamma Eridon]

OK, i'n not keen on doing this now, just intresed in technical details :-)

Heater is apatantlee just a Phillips fan heater by the way.

I don't think I will agree to this plan unless Im sure it is safe!

Cheers!

[Gamma Eridon]

I am in the asement flat, The upstairs tennants have their own supply. The shop has the main fuse missing before the meter (is this the company fuse?).

Would this be enough to run the Phillips?

Cheers!

[meow2222]

I gather you mean the heater. I dont know its ratings, nor those of the tools he'll be using, but almost definitely not. If he wants a heater, you can run a 1nd extension lead for that alone.

The main problem with the plug to plug idea is not the live pins. Those can kill but its unlikely. Bigger problems are the wire causing a fire due to considerable overload, failure to switch power off if it goes wrong, risk of appearing before the judge, with possiblity of custodial time, and possibility of being sued. I know there are people that do that sort of thing, but its not very smart.

NT

[ARWadsworth]

About just enough load to blow the 13 amp fuse.

Rod, this is a spam post. Re read it. It would not fool Baldrick.

Adam

[Gamma Eridon]

Just to be clear what if both supplies meet via this arangement? not sure if they are on diffrent phases???

Cheers!

[Dave]

Would this be enough to run the Phillips?

Cheers!

If you only require power for building work in the shop, then I would seriously suggest to you to use 2 separate (drum) extension leads downstairs, one for the heater, the other for power tools. I would plug one extension into one socket upstairs and the other into a separate socket upstairs. That should equalise the power out over the upstairs ring main. This is a much safer way of working. Of course, I would only use the extensions as a temporary measure, while builders are at work.

I am very surprised at ANYONE agreeing to electrical work as you first described, let alone an electrician!!

Hope this is of use.

Dave

[Gamma Eridon]

No Adam, im not a spammer.

[e-mail]

[Tim Downie]

Golly, what a lot of hysteria in this thread!

Yes, it will work.

If it's disconnected, I don't see why this should be a problem.

The only pitfall from your POV is how much power he might draw. As long as your extension is fused though you should be okay. To protect him, a RCD would be probably be good too.

From his POV, putting two male plugs on an extension lead represents a fair hazard to anyone handling the live end of the lead. Not clever.

Dunno. I'm sure it flouts electrical regs but you're hardly going to have the police banging on your door.

Will he burn your house down? Probably not. Might he electrocute himself? Possible.

As far as I can make out, all the dangers are at his end of the wire. If that's what he wants to do and is happy doing it, I'm not sure that it's your concern. If you provide a conventional extension to the flat upstairs and he then uses a male-to-male extension lead to power the circuits upstair then I don't see how you can be held responsible for his actions.

If I were him I'd wire a lead into the CU to power up the circuits upstairs and plug that into your extension. That way he'd avoid the dangers of exposed live pins on a male plug.

Tim

[Owain]

Big flashy bangs, molten copper wires, arcs, burns, fires, destruction of property, death.

Owain

[Owain]

I agree.

Even more sensible would be to tell builder to get the supply to the shop reinstated, which presumably it has to be at some time, or use a suitable generator meantime.

The builder to meet the costs and insure his liabilities of doing so.

A 'normal' kind of extension lead might not be legal if the shop is classed as a construction site.

Owain

[Chewbacca]

If you do this and someone gets killed as a result (quite possible) then prison awaits those responsible......

[Frank Erskine]

Is there any particular reason why _you_ should supply power for the use of a builder?

If a builder, or for that matter anybody else (butcher, baker or candlestick-maker) approaches you and asks if they can plug into one of your sockets it's entirely up to you to agree or not - remember it's you that is paying for any energy used...

Anything plugged into your socket (oo-err missus!) would be classed as an accessory, so it wouldn't come under wiring regulations, but if the lead ('leed') in your premises was overloaded with an incorrect choice of fuse in the plug at your end and a fire resulted, you may have a bit of an argument with your insurance people.

Even if a fire occurred in the shop above due to this arrangement and there was damage to your flat you might still have a problem with your insurance.

You say that the builder has promised a 'tidy sum' - he may perhaps leave a fan-heater on for days on end - consider this :-)

I wonder why the builder doesn't have the power connected and pay the going rate to the energy company...

[Gordy]

My sparky mate used to work on disconnected council houses, generator outside, plug to plug extension and power all over the house with no mucking about with trailing leads. He's not the sharpest tool in the box (sorry Barry) but he's still alive. I wouldn't do it though. Gordy

[TheOldFellow]

R.