Will the chancellor cane house owners in the budget?

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snip babble. I always enjoy seeing history rewritten, generally from the left. The decline in the UK society began at least in the 60's, when parents decided that they would prevent the schools system from imposing any discipline on their children and the governments of the day became obsessed with educational good ideas. It was actually Jim Callahan who decided that the schools needed to go back to the HMI system of the 50's, but his proposals were deemed unacceptable to the labour party( trade unions) so nothing was done. The trade unions also got involved in decreasing discipline in the society and avoiding all responsibility for their actions., Thatcher took up the challenge, but unfortunately, in education, whitehall got in the way, so what we got was the US, test 'em until they drop system imposed upon all of our schools.( An English friend writes curriculum programmes for a US school and was amazed to find that all we had done was to copy the US documents( at enormous cost) and system (which doesn't work anyway).) and no discipline. When you decide that the problem is not in the control of the children, but in the teachers inadequacy, surprise, surprise, the old and good teachers leave and the young ones give up within 3 years. This of course is followed by degrading the standards of examinations( GCSE= general certificate of substandard education), because no one must fail. You cannot reverse 40 years of decay without drastic action, this we don't get. Furthermore, when competition becomes a dirty word in schools, you don't get football at playtime, or sports day, because someone will get to feel inadequate ! How the rest of the world must be laughing.
The problem with our society is that it is motivated by envy(are you, IMM?) and unwilling to accept that it might itself be to blame. Our politicians are so far detached from the people, that depressingly, I cannot see any worthwhile future for the people the UK. We desperately need a new political approach and the Labour party bringing back communism and avoiding the real problems, because they don't want to lose power, is not going to provide it.
I also see that many Scots are now being selected as Labour candidates for English constituencies, how many Scottish constituencies have English candidates? ( I know the Welsh have had PHain inflicted upon them.)
Regards Capitol
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< snip disjointed babble totally off the mark on the root cause of the big problem; which is land and housing >

IMM?)
Why would I? I am not exactly poor. I certainly dislike seeing a tier of out society making sure all the dominos fall in their favour. And boy don't then do well. Our society is not motivated by envy. We have a deferential society that looks up to a ruling class that rips them off mercilessly. That is a problem in forcing in change.
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Would you make that comment regarding *any* section of society or just one particular one that you happen not to care for?

History shows that "forcing in change" has a habit of not working very well at all.
Societies always have a "ruling class". It may vary in style, form and background, but there always is one. There have always been the haves and have nots, the leaders and followers and there will always be these and real and apparent injustice.
.andy
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big
Of course I would. We need a meritocracy, not a medieval set up.

That
We are well overdue. The French revolution was a 180 degree change and that has worked exceptionally well.

Not all.
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Hmmm..... The question then becomes the definition of what "merit" is. That will be different for different people.

Most French people that I know are not hugely enamoured by what has become a huge centralised bureaucracy.

I can't think of any off hand, can you?
.andy
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you,
of
It certainly is not the Eton/Harrow/Oxbridge/Guards crap that we have.

that
All of them since 1789? I was there when they celebrated the 200th anniversary. All were delighted with the results. When is ours?

That figures.
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So what would you say that it is?

At least one would know the aristocrats were. But the faceless bureaucrats? Are they any more accountable?

Of having a day off and excuse for a party?
They are eating cake now at least... :-)
.andy
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I'm with Chou En-Lai, who reportedly said it was too soon to tell.
--
"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]
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wrote in message

just
and
At the way the country is run and what they have.

And they do.
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Absolutely! I do tend to the idea that really massive change only comes about after a revolution or defeat (France and Germany respectively). But what we are doing in Britain is continually changing things because we don't know how, or haven't the will, to make what we already have work properly. The latest crazy idea from the chief crazies in Whitehall and Westminster is to scrap A-levels and GCSEs and replace them with "diplomas". Any problems with A-levels are therefore deemed unfixable, despite the fact that we have had the A-level system in the UK for years, and the only way to fix them is, apparently, to scrap them. Think of the enormous cost the new diplomas will incur! Armies of extra public servants will be recruited to shift mountains for new forms, the new plans will take years to bed down and become as widely understood in industry as A-levels are today, and then, if and when, the diplomas start to become effective, some future government will decide it's time for a change again because problems have been found and deemed to be unfixable.
The only way to stop this kind of ridiculous dogma is to cut off its air supply.
MM
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:05:51 +0000, Mike Mitchell

I suspect that the reality is that this is a way to obfuscate the steadily declining standards in education.
THe goal posts of the existing system have been moved to the point that they are off the pitch and in the crowd; therefore the time has come to move to a different pitch and play a different game.
.andy
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wrote:

If they decline much further, there will be no one around in thirty years with the ability to recognise a misspelling in Government documents or university papers, and then we shall be the laughing stock of the world. The home of the English language inhabited by people who do not know it properly.

Indeed. How long shall this new game last?
MM
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wrote:

that
The French baccalaureate is superior. We should go that way, and what I see is that the new proposal is not far off.
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< snip brainwashed drivel >
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wrote:
[snip]

In the case of Germany and Holland, that is patently NOT the case! How you can possibly suggest that those two countries have the same litter problem as Britain, beats me! When I have spent a week in Germany, then return to the UK, as soon as I emerge from the barriers at Heathrow I notice how everything you look at looks tacky, cheap, inferior, worn, badly maintained. Everywhere. You. Look. The buses, the Tube, the restaurants, the streets, the dress-sense, the grubbiness of the place is quite impressive. Take a GOOD look next time you travel, okay?!!
MM
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wrote:

Holland,
And all of Scandinavia and very rare in France.

Asking Andy to see reality is taking it a bit too far.
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I frequently visit Sweden, Norway and Denmark. All of these countries have problems with litter, dog sh*t on the pavements, graffiti etc. especially in the capital cities. Away from these, it's less of an issue, but only because the population density drops markedly.
France is not remarkably different either. One can visit different arrondissements in Paris and find that some are exemplary and others are appalling. Fly tipping happens in rural parts of France just as it does here.
It isn't supportable to say that the UK has a singularly bad problem with respect to litter and similar social maladies.
.andy
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wrote:

I have been in every part of France and spend a hell of a lot of time there. Flt tipping is rare indeed. Compared to London, Paris is immaculately clean.

It is. The place is filthy, especially after the Wicked Witch came to power.
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If you look in the areas surrounding the main railway stations, especially Gare du Nord, Gard de l'Est and Montparnasse they are as seedy and filthy as those around the London termini.
You can find relatively clean areas in both cities as well - for example La Defense and the financial district of Docklands. They may be clean, but walking through either of them on a winter morning when the wind is blowing is not pleasurable.

It doesn't seem to have become noticably worse since 1997, I would say, so I am not sure how you can say that.
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wrote:

there.
Yet it is all contained in a few areas, while London is plain filthy, although Ken is making a good job swimming against the tide.

Docklands? Please.

power.
New Lab has made some impact to clean the place up.
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