I heard Terry Gilliam (Python) talking about his life. He quit religion in his teens when the elders didn't like him making jokes about God. It set me thinking whether there are any religions that have humour as part of their writ. Jews tell the best jokes but I don't think it is part of the Talmud. This is a very catholic ng (small c) so I wondered if anyone has come across a witty religion in their travels or studies. My bet is on Hindu, but I profess ignorance.
Peter Scott
Buddhism is based on the whole idea that life is a bit of a joke, and the best thing to do if you cant transcend it, is laugh at it..
If nothing else, it makes you feel better.
Thanks.
Hmmm. I can see that is a sound philosophy but you don't often see Buddhists laughing in a religious way. Ones I know seem to smile in a knowing way. I want to see if there are any LOL religions.
How about Frisbeetarians who believe that when you die your soul flies up onto the roof and gets stuck there.
Sorry, not much help really, I'll get me coat....
Shamanism probably.
But remember all *organised* religions are there to organise, and laughter is the most subversive action anyone can take.
I'll have to think about that. Is all laughter subversive? I guess that
*most* is, if it's at someone else's expense, especially the stuffed-shirts who 'run' things. But those times when everyone dissolves into uncontrolled mirth (not a dry seat in the house) is often just a group ecstasy, exactly what some religions say they do, not that they ever worked for me.Must look into shamanism.
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R.H.Blythe, i think it was in the book series 'Zen and Zen Classics' wrote a book titled something like zen and humour. not sure of the exact title, but its only about Zen Buddhism and Humour.
with daft questions to think about, like: Does a dog have buddha nature?
Indeed.
Well don't buy any books on MODERN shamanism.
Its all hippy beads and contacting your spiritual BS.
buy anthropological texts instead.
I you study religion extensively, what you may find, as I did, that there are two sides to it.
At its core, is the religious experience. Or the shamanic experience. Indeed I find little difference between an old testament 'prophet' a Dervish, or a buddhist meditating monk. or a Brazilin tribal shaman. The goals are apparently similar, only the techniques of achieving it differ.
But that then gets translated into the local and temporal cultures of the times, in order to construct what appear to me to be socially cohesive mores, and that is what most people understand by 'religion'
I.e. its one think for Martin Luther King to say 'I have a dream..' as any good shaman/prophet does.. and then to end up with political affirmative discrimination policies etc. etc.
In other words, the essence of all these things is that this mundane world is not the be-all and end all of existence itself. And that this is a fact that may, by undergoing various rituals and disciplines, be experienced by anyone with the ability to follow the methodology. Such a person is a mystic, a druid, a shaman, a guru, a medicine man, a diablero, a witch, a prophet or an enlightened one.
What he/she chooses to do with this experience, the terms in which they describe it, and what profane followings they attract, are purely cultural.
Christianity is pure Romano European, tacked on to an older shamanistic culture of the middle east. With some incorporation of druidic and Nordic shamanism as well.
Islam is pure middle eastern.
As is Judaism.
You find traces of pre-christian European shamanism in the folk record..fairies, gnomes. witches and wizards, elves, ghosts and so on. Tolkien's landscape is close.
Also in the Greek mythology.
Taoism and Buddhism represent the development of Asian shamanism, into something akin to a structured science, only the Jewish Kabballah is comparable in the West.
Hinduism appears to be a degenerate form of Taoism, in some senses as does Shinto.
The whole study is deeply interesting and fascinating, once you can see it all objectively, and step back from 'what the church teaches' to 'what the mystics (including Jesus) actually said'
My overwhelming conclusion is that all these things point towards something that is definitely there, in some sense. But for reasons I wont go into here, how it appears, is really a function of the cultural basis from which it is viewed. Hence the remarkably different pictures that are painted to simplify it.
unenlightened people are forever perplexed by the fact that other people, especially other cultures, see "reality" differently."
Sounds like Dennis.
MBQ
It (discordianism) is probably very close to my modus operandi.
Its pretty zen as well.
Aleister Crowley wrote "The Book of Lies"
THE BOOK OF LIES WHICH IS ALSO FALSELY CALLED
BREAKS
THE WANDERINGS OR FALSIFICATIONS OF THE ONE THOUGHT OF
FRATER PERDURABO (Aleister Crowley)
WHICH THOUGHT IS ITSELF UNTRUE :-)
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Smackeroo! There is one. Zen. I loved the list of different forms of laughter. Bit sad that only the proles are allowed the loudest laughter though.
Sita highest and noblest form, a faint smile
Hasita next highest form, a smile which barely reveals the tips of the teeth
Vihasita an even larger smile accompanied by some laughter
Upahasita a more pronounced laughter, marked by shaking of the head, shoulders, and arms
Apahasita loud laughter that makes one teary-eyed
Atihasita uproarious laughter that makes one double over, slap the thighs, or roll around
So ROFL is in fact atihasita
The bit about "the humor in Zen: ... is iconoclastic in its 'smashing' of that which is typically though of 'traditional'" confirms what Nat Phil said about it being subversive.
I've done the archery bit, but not many laughs allowed whilst shooting, even when I pinned my mates hat to the ground as it blew away across the field. Best shot of the day.
The Parody Religions were interesting especially the Flying Spgahetti Monster. More pasta than pastor!
Thanks to all.
Peter Scott
Is that just hearsay?
The consequences for someone making jokes used to be very serious - still the case with Islam in many places. Look what happened to Rushdie.
Funny, you never see dennis and Hagbard Celine in the same room together
(But that's prolly because Hagbard wouldn't want to be in the same room as dennis)
You don't say ...
No, but Aleister did.
He was lying !
Of course.
? !
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