In message , harryagain writes
And your's is a foolish reply.
Both are expensive, internal is very disruptive unless done when a room is being redecorated/renovated, and often not so practical. Our house is Victorian, with lots of nice Victorian cornices , skirting etc. a listed building in a conservation area. Moslty internal and external insulation or out. Though I might do the kitchen when ever we redo it.
I'll ring you up when I write the case to English Heritage for the modifications then. I'm sure they'll be understanding about my new carbuncle.
Grade 1 or 2? Conservation area is bad enough, listed ...
Bear in mind that you only really need to insulate external walls. That may mean only one or two walls per room internally. It's still disruptive but possibly not as bad as you think.
Er, you do know how the loan for the "Green Deal" is paid back don't you? By adding the payments to your electricty bill, in theory the savings made elsewhere cover this increase but there is *no* guarantee. Oh and the interest rate on the loan is likely to be in the 6 to 9% range. Be cheaper to add it to you mortgage...
Only really practical if you have wet UFH, retro fitting UFH is far more disruptive than a few bits of PIR foam boards on the inside of external walls.
There is a guarantee that you won't pay more than the estimated savings.
That means you borrow the cash and have to repay it. The green deal loans are on the utility bill and in theory you will never pay any more than you would have had to pay for your energy.
Gets rid of the oil though and the newer heat pumps can work with wet radiator systems without too much extra energy costs.
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The loan and repayments are set up based on *estimated* and "average" savings, if those savings don't materialise the repayments are not capped.
That is all the Green Deal is, a loan that you repay plus interest by a charge on the properties electricity bill. Note it is linked to the property not the current occupier. Why pay 6 to 9% interest on a Green Deal loan when you could add it to your mortgage at less than
4%? It's still linked to the property but not in a way that may well put off prospective buyers. I know that given a choice between two similar properties one with Green Deal one without the one with Green Deal would have to have something more than just "similar".Key and operative words "in theory". There is no guarantee that if the actual savings are not as much as loan payments the payments are capped at the actual savings. This is the major problem with Green Deal, the loan is setup using *average* savings for the type of works done. By definition of average some will win some will lose. My maths knowledge doesn't tell me if an "average" always has half the points below and half the points above, if it does it's a 50:50 chance that you'll lose (or win if you are half full glass person). Even if an average isn't mathematically half and half I suspect the distribution of points is fairly symmetrical thus making any error on the 50:50 small.
No such thing as a free lunch. If the building needs 30 kWHr to keep it warm that energy has to come from somewhere either oil at 6p/kwHr, (80% efficient boiler make that 7.5p/kWHr or electricity 12p/kWHr (COP of 3, 4p/kWHr) but with significant disruption and capital cost for a UFH system.
The heat pump might be 4p/kWHr cheaper than oil or about £1.20/day in the winter but nothing at all in the summer, no space heating required. Making the crude assumption of 6 months "summer" and 6 months "winter", that is just over £200/year saving on a capital cost of maybe £5000+, 25+ year payback... It'll be worse for a heat pump driven wet radiator system as the COP will be lower, not as disruptive to install but how much more expensive the 2 stage heat pump will be in capital and running I'm not sure.
Heat pump in a new build with high insulation levels and designed in fine but retro fit is hard to make economic in a sensible time scale. Yes oil prices will go up, it's roughly trebled in 13 years. However electricity has also gone up, around double over the same time period. ICBA to factor those price rises into a projection on the above 25 year payback.
:-)
Grade 2. It's ok, we knew what we were getting into when we bought it :-) And our LA conservation people seem ok. Though we've not wanted to to do anything outrageous. The only restriction we've really had was on the style of the replacement conservatory Though they were happy for us to pull down the old rotting, literally falling down one and replace it with a nice new double glazed one.
It's not so much the disruption that puts me off - I would wait until rooms are re-decorated anyway. it's the nice ceiling cornices and other features. Not insurmountable, but adds to the cost and complexity of the job. And two of the key rooms have 3 external walls
I have done the bathroom wall though as I've been refitting that.
The average of 10, 10, and 1 is 7. So there are two points above and one below the average.
Only a symmetrical distribution gives you 50% above and below. I think the word you are looking for is median.
They are capped, in fact they are fixed. The savings appear to be based on a low side estimate so most people should exceed them.
From what I have seen the savings are calculated well below typical. You can apply and not go ahead if you don't think you will save.
True, but do you see how much harry gets for "free"?
The two stage ones will do hot water if wanted.
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