Why street lights on all night?

[terry]

Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for certain street etc.

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:24:32 -0800 (PST) someone who may be terry wrote this:-

Because electricity was too cheap and so councils generally didn't bother, especially when they switched from time clocks to photocells. However, there were places in the 1970s where the street lights went off at around ISTR midnight, I suspect that at the time they had not been converted to photocell operation.

[clumsy bastard]

they are also supposed to deter crime and reduce accidents, its something that changes as priorities change, no doubt "green" is now a bigger consideration, but lampposts are usually not brand new.

[Andrew Gabriel]

There was a large new estate near me where all the original small mercury vapour lamps went off at midnight. There was an enormous campaign to have them on all night, and the council eventually replaced them all with low pressure sodium on photocells (which was cheaper to run than the mercury ones switching off at midnight).

They turn out to have a much more significant crime reduction effect than CCTV does, something which the government reminded local councils a number of times as they were all fighting for large funds to install and run CCTV systems.

None of the currently used streetlamp technologies are much good for frequent switching. Indeed, the technologies have been driven mainly by minimising relamping costs, and the technologies used currently really depend on only one switchon/day for the long lamp life. Allowing people to switch them on for 15 - 60 minutes as was done in the German trial would add enormous costs for relamping, using current the current technologies.

[Rod]

Didn't it start in the days of coal generation with the promise of atomic? When the night-time demand was much smaller than the daytime. Before the days of fast reaction gas turbines. When things like Economy

7 were dreamed up.

Round here the council has switched off large amounts of street lighting

- entirely. In some places they have used LEDs instead of catseyes as a sop. (Having driven along them, I quite like them - but ideally there would also be edge LEDs.)

But lighting is so very uneven. Not far away there is an area where they have absolutely no lighting - and it seems the reason is something to do with heritage - never had any so putting it in would change the nature. This despite having built lots and lots of new housing.

Where I am we have too much. On a small footpath between houses (surely less than 100 metres) there are two - both recently replaced. When one was broken it was much more appropriate! (With snow on the ground, the new downwardly directed lamps make it like daylight out there.)

There was a recent local news story (probably in Hampshire), where a village had somehow got funding to pay for lighting - so it was switched back on.

[chris French]

In message , David Hansen writes

Yep, I can certainly remember living somewhere when I was a kid where the streetlights used to turn off around then.

Also remember living somewhere else where they didn't and there used to be a confused blackbird who'd sit on the streetlight at in the middle of the night singing

[Steve Walker]

I've often thought that it would make sense to turn off every other light for a portion of the night. It would still give reasonable lighting for most purposes, while saving electricity.

It'd obviously only make sense for new installations, but could then also incorporate a system where if a lit lamp fails, the ones either side turn back on so that there isn't a long dark area.

SteveW

[The Natural Philosopher]

always completely confused me..

I fell far safer walking down an unlit track with no moon, than down a deserted street with lights. Heck, if I cant see where I am going, who can see me?

[Clot]

[Andy Champ]

It's more often a robin.

I remember getting up in the middle of the night once and taping this birdsong, hoping it was a Nightingale. It wasn't.

Andy

[clumsy bastard]

There's a couple of points here. "An unlit track" is generally safer than a street, assuming by a track you mean something like a country footpath, I would carry my obviously expensive camera bag on any upland footpath but not in the city centre, that's not a function of lighting. Its more a matter of frequency and type of use and proximity to the haunts of lowlifes. Does a mugger think "I will go to a remote footpath (that I probably dont even know exists)" or does he think "I will hang around near the station down the road where dl can pick on a small woman in stilettos rather than a six foot six mountaineer in heavy boots with an ice axe, travelling in a group of 2+ for mountain safety"? (the madman who walked the length (depth?) of Spain off road got mugged - he beat the two muggers up using his staff - he is ex Para).

Given that cities and towns are where the bad guys will be lurking, you then have to decide will they lurk more in the dark or in the light? The evidence seems to be they prefer the dark. Your

*perception* may be the darkness will hide you too, but if the bad guy knows where there is a high usage unlit place, that's where he will lurk and he will hear your footsteps approaching.........

[RobertL]

One of the things I always notice when visiting Oslo is how many unlit places there are in the city compared with UK cities. I think it's the lower crime rate there which means that it's not necessary to illuminate every little nook and cranny.

Robert

[dwtowner]

I live in a Somerset village, and the street lights turn off at about midnight, and come back on at some point in the early morning. When new lights have been installed recently to replace old lights, these have been fitted with timers. These are apparently more expensive to buy than lights with photo-cells, even if they are cheaper to run.

dan.

[Man at B&Q]

There are quite a few places in Buckinghamshire where the streetlights have been turned off completely. One amusing juxtaposition of signs on the A418 into Aylesbury reads something like "drive carefully, XX casualties in Y years" followed a few yards further on by "Street lighting not in use". Couldn't possibly be any connection, could there?

MBQ

[Dave Liquorice]

And no cloud? Starlight isn't bad but it don't take much cloud to block that out. Then it's black, pitch black black, unless of course you get reflected steet light pollution from the clouds....

[clumsy bastard]

how many people could actually see to stop if there was an unlit obstruction on an unlit motorway at 70mph with dipped headlights and a bit of oncoming dazzle?

[Adrian]

clumsy bastard gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

If you're getting oncoming dazzle on a motorway, then you either need an eyetest desperately or you're driving down the wrong carriageway.

I'm beginning to see where your posting name came from.

[clumsy bastard]

For a start understand "bit". All oncoming light affects your ability to see objects in unlit areas. Read up on how your eyes work. (I dont need an repeat eyetest thanks). Then give it some thought rather than attempting the mindless putdown.

[Jules]

Yes, I'd been told that years ago, too. Sounds sensible I suppose as I believe back then power stations didn't really like running at idle, so some sort of guaranteed minimum load 24x7 was useful.

Ugh, I remember driving on a few roads with LEDs rather than reflective catseyes, and I found them may too distracting (particularly if caught in peripheral vision for any reason)

There's almost none out here in USVille - major intersections on highways tend to be lit by a few lights, but that's it - no lighting on lesser roads, no catseyes, no lighting on road signs. Driving in dark and wet conditions can get interesting. (I really don't know why they've never "invented" catseyes over here - I can understand the cost of lighting and associated power infrastructure, but putting a few bits of reflective glass in the road doesn't exactly seem hard)

cheers

Jules

[clumsy bastard]

sorry, missed that bit. Let me explain - there's two ways to approach usenet, with humour and a bit of humility or arrogance and aggression, my posting name is there to indicate I have a sense of humour about my diy skills. No doubt you are in the 90% of male drivers who thinks they are in the top 10%? :-)