Who can do building work in France?

[stevebowtie]

I've just seen a website that says that only registered builders are allowed to do building work in France. Is this true or is he just drumming up trade?

Steve

[ARWadsworth]

Usually the Algerians

Adam

[chris French]

In message , [e-mail] writes

From what I remember watching one of these 'A clueless couple who can't speak French go and do up a wreck' type programs, that's correct.

[nightjar]

You can also do it yourself. However, if you do hire a builder, that builder must be registered under French law.

Colin Bignell

[Anna Kettle]

But what does registered mean? You could say the same about builders in this country cos they all need a CIS card from the Inland Revenue, but thats not a problem, the card is available on demand

Anna ~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs / ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc |____|

01359 230642

[G&M]

Only registered builders may do work for reward. There have been umpteen cases of Irish builders going there quoting EU laws but they always end up in court.

If you do it yourself, I believe you need a local 'architect' (more like a constructional engineer) to okay it.

Most of their builders in fact do very little but send in teams of Greeks/Spaniards/whoever and can be quite cost effective.

[Andy Hall]

Somebody in France also told me that if you hire a builder, the VAT can be reclaimed even on refurbishment and other work but not for DIY.

Has that been your experience, Colin?

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[chris French]

In message , Anna Kettle writes

I've no idea precisely, AFAICR the builder has to be registered with he local council (Town? Department? don't know).

[G&M]

Almost every profession in France requires attending the correct academy for apprenticeship/professional training.

I believe you can't even run for president unless you went to certain schools.

[nightjar]

Having bought a fairly modern house in good condition, I've not needed to do more than correct some of the previous owner's DIY :-)

I am told that it is very important to keep any invoices, provided that they are made out in your name at your French address. Both work done by professionals and materials bought by you for DIY that meet those conditions can be offset against Capital Gains Tax when you sell.

Colin Bignell

Colin Bignell

[stevebowtie]

Thanks to all who replied. That was a nervous moment.

Steve

[Brian Sharrock]

There's something (in French) about an ass and a nay .. Graduate of Ecole Nationale Adminsitration (ENA's); and Ecole Nationale de E?... ..(ENE's)

It sounded funny in the bar ... :(

[Paul C. Dickie]

In article , G&M writes

And/or pay the right people the appropriate bribes?

[Paul C. Dickie]

In article , [e-mail] writes

As someone is (almost) certain to say it...

It's a job protection scheme for the masons.

[G&M]

So where do you think you learn who to pay and how much ? ;-)

[Holly]

Sorry, I'm a bit late replying to this. I've been very busy since moving to France but I'm still lurking. I'll try to answer this and some of the other points made in this thread all together.

My understanding of this is as follows: The law says that only registered artisans can work in France. You could do the work yourself and as long as you didn't sell the house I don't think there would be any problem with that, I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble, but YMMV. When you came to sell, you would need all the receipts for materials for capital gains tax purposes and, I think, an architects certificate. I suspect you would have difficulty getting an architect to certify the house unless he/she had seen the construction going on. If you are applying for planning permission, unless it is your own house and less than a certain area, (75 sq m rings a bell, not sure) you will need an architect to put in the plans anyway, so could discuss this with him/her. I don't have any personal experience in this area though, you would need to check with the local mairie or the notaire.

In practice most people use registered artisans. There isn't really such a thing as a general builder in France, there just isn't a category in the system to register them under. You would have to employ separate masons/blocklayers, carpenters, electrician/plumbers etc. Anyone qualified in any of these trades in another EU country can, with an official translation of their qualifications and a fair amount of wading through red tape and doing a one week course on starting a business, become registered in France. You might find a "constructor of individual houses",who are allowed to do all building and renovation work except plumbing and electrics, but the requirements for this category need building/engineering qualifications and suitable management experience and most of them really do only build whole houses.

So, if you are going to employ anyone, you have to decide whether to use a registered builder on an unregistered one. Legally they should be registered but in practice some, in my experience mostly English ones but a couple of French, are not. You should be aware that it is an offence to use an unregistered one and you as well as they would get in trouble if you were caught. As always, there are advantages and disadvantages.

If you are going to sell the house within 5-15 years you will be liable for capital gains tax, on a sliding scale, so you will need builders receipts for that. You will also need a 10 year guarantee certificate which registered builders should provide. Someone mentioned VAT rates. If you are buying materials yourself you will pay 19.6% TVA. Artisans can, at the moment, charge 5% TVA on the whole job if they are doing the work and supplying the materials, for renovation work on houses over a certain age, not sure what. That system is due to end 'soon' but it has been due to end soon for the past few years! There is much talk and fear of it happening amongst the artisans but no one seems to know exactly when it is to happen. If you are lucky enough to find a small builder working as a micro-enterprise they will not have to charge TVA on the labour but you will have to buy your own materials and pay the full TVA on those. So the relative amounts of labour and materials involved could make it more or less expensive overall, depending on the exact nature of the work involved.

The advantage of using an unregistered builder is that you will not have to pay TVA on the labour and it may be cheaper because they will be working for cash, don't pay tax, social insurance etc. You are also more likely to find someone English speaking if doing it all in French is a problem for you. They may well also be available more quickly since good builders tend to have alot of work ahead of them here.

I'm not sure that all that is very clear, but hope it helps.

A quick undisguised advert whilst I'm here. We have been in France, in the Dordogne/Charente/Haute Vienne border area for three years, running a small building company (registered!). We have just finished renovating a gite/holiday home beside our house. Anyone interested in coming on holiday please contact me by email. I'll also post details of our website when it is online. If you are thinking of buying in this area, wondering about moving to France, starting a business, getting children into schools etc we could tell you a bit about it when you were here.

Holly to email use holly1 then the at symbol then tiscali then dot then fr

[mark]

In message , Anna Kettle writes

Only if you're a subby. Its not required if you only work for private customers.

[Phil Addison]

Have a word with these guys

uk.d-i-y FAQ is at NOSPAM from address to email me

[Holly]

750 euro for something that we do as a favour! Also their prices, for septic tanks at least, are higher than one would pay locally. Then again they do say that they can do the work quickly so it might be worth it for someone who is living without a septic tank and with no prospect of getting one in the next six months or so.....

Interesting site though, and one that I will suggest to clients when we can't help them.

Holly

[Kalico]

I can see them - maybe you have a slow ISP?

Replace 'spam' with 'org' to reply