What cost 1,000,000 pcs 5' foam eggs?

[Mary Fisher]

"nightjar .uk.com>"

That's fascinating.

And now my head hurts ...

Mary

[bigcat]

thanks for an intresting article. But I think far too expensive. Cost is the decider on this. The whole system must come in at a max of =A3100 per egg, delivered. That includes egg, GPS and some primitive nav equipment.

Also the specs of those technomads are truly excessive.

NT

[bigcat]

It might be passable to substitute plastic film airbags. Not sure.

regrettably too expensive. Egg budget is in region of =A360 each.

NT

[Mary Fisher]

You will tell us when these things are afloat I hope. And your decisions on the manufacturing of course.

Some pictures would be nice too ... I'm sure none of us will patent it before you!

Mary

[nightjar]

Have you considered adapting something that is already made in volume?

The 220 litre containers here

sold at about £50 each from distributors.

In the sort of volume you are talking about, I would expect them to cost £10-£20 each direct from the manufacturer and for a million you could specify the colour if you don't like blue or green. If they are going to spend a few months in the sea, you would have to look at the survivability of the locking mechanism and my first thought would be a heat-shrink sleeve around it, which would also provide a secondary seal. Having it made in 316 stainless steel would be another option, although I would be concerned about corrosion on the inside of the band, which would not have the good supply of oxygen that is essential to stainless steel remaining corrosion-free.

If you plan to use the containers more than once, generic containers like this can also be used to send products back in the other direction, saving on shipping costs. However, a fixed foam fill would cause problems doing that and I would look at fitting a simple frame inside the keg, with the product suspended from it using elastomer film. This is a common way of protecting delicate items in transit since the introduction of the packaging waste regulations.

ISTR that experiments in using similar containers to send goods to Britain along the Gulf Stream during WW2, found that they needed to be almost completely submersed, to avoid the wind from affecting their drift. This will make them a hazard to small vessels.

Colin Bignell

[nightjar]

Unless they are self-propelled, which you haven't mentioned before, why do they need nav equipment? Using flotsam prediction programmes, which were developed from programmes used to trace how floating seeds spread, you can have a very good idea of when (often to within a day) and where it is going to turn up. The pick-up vessel could then trace them using simple, cheap, transponders, which will not have needed to be provided with power for months on end.

Colin Bignell

[Mary Fisher]

"nightjar .uk.com>"

Colin, you're amazing. I mean that!

Mary

[Owain]

Yeah, I like the idea of the St Josephs church carillon system - Scots Guards pipers audible three miles away.

I wanna get into a PA war with the karaoke machine at the pub across the road, but only if I know I will win :-)

Owain

[nightjar]

"nightjar .uk.com>" ... However, a fixed foam fill would cause problems doing that and I would

On second thoughts, ignore the framework. Use the elastomer film to suspend a pocket inside a heavy duty balloon. Put the goods inside the pocket, put the whole lot inside the container and inflate the balloon to suspend the goods in the centre of the container. The balloon will prevent water getting into the container if the seal leaks. At the other end, the balloon can be deflated and packed back into the container for re-use.

Colin Bignell

[nightjar]

Precisely. There are probably tens of millions of those made every year.

...

It is simply good training. When I was an engineering undergraduate, our tutor would give a small group of us a problem like this to solve every week and we would sit around throwing ideas about until we came up with a solution he liked.

Colin Bignell

[Mary Fisher]

"nightjar .uk.com>"

Do you think they still do such sensible things as that?

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Is that the one in Dundee? Hilltown?

One of our sons had a flat right behind it. We were woken to, um, interesting sounds.The 'tunes' were almost but just not familiar.

Mary

[bigcat]

nightjar:

the central idea was a way to blend the two. No active propulsion system, but a way to exert some control over where it went and make use of passive propulsion. Hence the wish for nav control. I'm presuming that plain old eggdropping would not give a good yield, not enough would reach destination. But Ive not searched for previous attempts at it, so who knows. Either way, passive nav should increase the arrival yield, and widen the eggdropping window. And both those are important commercially.

well, one could but it doesnt sound like a low cost option. Really we need the eggs to deliver themselves rather than be searched for one by one.

sounds good, yup. nice one.

im not seeing how. The idea was it would save having to box the contents, you just fill the thing up and close it, and the built in lining would protect the contents from hard knocks. For these to work at all we need to not add a lot of labour costs at every fill. If instead we can take away costs by not needing to box the contents, that would be a definite plus.

I dont understand that one. A giant-bubble liner would work and be quick to fit, and could be glued in place. But Im doubtful it would survive sufficiently reliably. Some percentage of goods damage is acceptable. The initial idea is to ship goods that are only of value at their destination, but not at send point nor en route. Of course if that can be improved, great, but only if within budget.

I had assumed that a) we could model for the expected wind b) the passive nav could provide some amount of course correction c) they would be small and light enough not to be a hazard. d) the foam etc liner would cushion most of the impact mass

220 litre is smaller than planned too. 0.22 cubic metres would bring the budget down, since it only ships 0.22 cu m per time. 8 cuft would give us a budget of around =A38.... no.

Mary:

If it ever gets to that, certainly. I'm too busy on more serious projects to get into it any day soon though - and I'd be quite surprised if it turns out to be genuinely workable. Its one of those things I had to ask, as you never know, it just might.

Thanks to you all for your eggsellant help.

NT

[nightjar]

I'm not sure that any but the oldest universities ever did. Certainly my factory manager, whose university only achieved that status the year before he graduated, had never come across the tutor system.

Colin Bignell

[Mary Fisher]

"nightjar .uk.com>"

That's what I suspected :-(

You're a real asset on any group.

Mary

[Owain]

Sixty miles west of Boston. (Boston, Massachusetts.)

One of our sons had a flat right behind it. We were woken to, um,

The congregation is primarily Polish, and there is a substantial library of traditional Polish music on tape. Mr. Jacques notes, "A lot of traditional Polish music is not yet on CD. Therefore the need for the JVC dual cassette deck. By facilitating the playback of this traditional music through the Carillon system, the congregation becomes more in touch with their Church, as well as their heritage." The system is programmed for Angelus and Westminster Chimes to signal

3 time daily prayer at 6 am, noon and 6 p.m., not to mention six-bell peals, 15 minutes before each mass, followed by a number of hymns. There are 2 masses each day, during the weekdays and four masses each Saturday, and Sunday. Mr. Jacques states, "The Technomad Carillon system is used very regularly. In fact, it's on 24 hours per day." I live three and a half miles away, and on a calm night I can hear the bells and music loud and clear. So can every other member of the congregation within that range."

I'd be suing them for compensation if I was in earshot ...

Owain

[Mary Fisher]

Well, son chose to live there (in Dundee) and became strangely fond of it. There were no chimes though, it was all tunes. Sort of ... We tried to get into the church to talk to someone about it but couldn't find a door ...

He was stationed at Leuchars at the time and has lived in many places since then. Currently on his latest move from Cambrideshire (Wyton) to Chippenham (Lyneham). Nothing as exotic as carillons there!

Mary

[Owain]

No, but they've got interwebthingy too :-)

A bit like a Mormon ice-cream van?

Owain

[Mary Fisher]

Oh. That pleases me strangely, not the interwebthingy, your not being there.

er... might be ...

Mary who doesn't know what a Mormon ice-cream van is

[nightjar]

It would keep costs down to have one container that had some control and to use that to tow a number of others.

RF transponders used in stock control cost pence and linking a number of containers into a loose raft would avoid the need to search for them one by one

...

They also have the added advantage that you can run trials without having to spend out money on tooling.

...

What I had in mind was a balloon, made of the stuff that inflatable furniture is made from, that fits inside the container when blown up. In one end of the balloon is the mouth of a pocket, into which you insert the goods when the balloon is deflated. The outer balloon and the pocket are linked by springy plastic sheet at a number of places around the circumference, both to stop the pocket blowing out when the balloon is inflated and to absorb shocks. Drop the balloon and the goods into the container then inflate the balloon. That will both lock the goods in place and give some shock absobtion. How much will depend on how springy the plastic is and how much space there is between the outer and inner bits of the balloon.

You can usually predict winds fairly well over the next few hours (although remember Michael Fish and the Great Storm). You can have a rough idea over the next 24 hours. Three days forecasts are general guides and anything over five days is pure guesswork.

IME, that will be very limited, unless you have a power source

Almost any impact is a hazard to yachts and small motor craft.

Colin Bignell