What a Load of Old Sh**

[Rick Hughes]

I have made 3 raised beds in the garden... of aprox 35 sq m area.

Having put in 15 cu m of top soil, now going to put on top a 100mm depth of well rotted manure, then another 100mm top soil as cover. (with slight fork over) I know putting manure in last year and letting it rot over winter would be first choice - couldn't do that, hence this second method of layering. First crop will help mix it in.

First crop will be root veg ... 30% potatoes, followed by cabbage, cauliflower, parsnip & onion.

The Q .. is simple should I use Cow manure or Horse manure ? ....... I have a stables and farm close by ... and as much of either as I want.

Supposedly Elephant Manure is the best ... but there is a shortage of visiting elephants in my area - used to have Billy Smarts & Chipperfields visit several times a year when I was a kid, now the only circus is some Russians prancing about and dangling on ropes.

[Vass]

Chicken Sh*t

[JimK]

missus reckons horse tho s**te is s**te NB check that thread about weedkiller infested hays etc that horses can be fed on such that the s**te can still contain the weedkillers etc :>(

Cheers JimK

[Andy Dingley]

Horse. Contains more vegetable matter, so it acts as a mechanical improver too.

Collected cow is generally slurry which is pretty concentrated stuff. I wouldn't use this directly, without some prior composting. Even more so for pig or chicken.

[The Natural Philosopher]

yep. That woz us.

Also got another load of 'fresh' delivered once that was so fresh it darn near killed everything.

These days its tonne bags of topsoil or compost and tubs of fish blood and bone.

Try and use runner beans as fat way to put nitrogen in. Compost the haulms.

Potatoes are an excellent first crop too.

Root veg benefit from a lot of sand mixed in to lighten soil..

There is a lot of bollox talked about compost. Basically the best vegetable gardens are those that have simply been dug ,planted, and the residues left to rot, for the last 40 years or more.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , Rick Hughes writes

4" is a HUGE amount of rotted manure.

Well rotted, yarded cattle manure is safer and probably more suitable. Stable manure can vary enormously as some bed with wood shavings, some with straw and sometimes the pile is as collected from the field.

There was a flurry a year or so back, when it was realised that some

*grass safe* chemicals were sufficiently persistent to pass through the horses gut and affect susceptible garden crops.

regards

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Tim Lamb saying something like:

I wonder what effect this had on any farmers who used it. I'd think it might be a bit of a blow for an organic grower.

[Dave]

Bird droppings, as manure, was discussed at lunchtime in my local for use as a fertaliser. It was very well recommended. The only problem I can see is collecting it. My instinct, is use the stable output. It's more plant based, even if cows do eat grass.

Dave

[Dave]

Having read that, I retract my statement to use horse manure.

I've done a bit of gardening, but it was before the chemicals for all era. Bloody Monsanto :-(

Dave

[The Natural Philosopher]

The chemical in question is designed to kill just about anything except grass, and breaks down rapidly in animal guts. Its for GRAZING use.

Sadly, it doesn't break down in cellulose, so until the compost is fully decomposed, it stays in the vegetable material.

Its is, of course, an organic chemical..;-)

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher saying something like:

That's ok then. I was wondering how safe it would be to use horse shit for composting. Problem solved if time is allowed for nature's course.

[The Natural Philosopher]

2-3 years with turning over to aereate. The cellulose has to break down first, then the chemistry will break down AEOROBICALLY.

[Tim Watts]

Tim Lamb wibbled on Saturday 10 April 2010 18:39

Tesco's Value Tinned Stew?

[Peter Crosland]

Horse manure is best but in any case you need to use stuff that has been well rotted. In fact horse manure contains more vegetable matter than the bovine variety because the equine digestive system is very inefficient.

100mm of manure is rather a lot unless you dig it in and mix it with the soil.

Peter Crosland

[Clot]

Cow. This is more digested due to the design of the ruminant gut. Plenty of available nitrogen. If you use horse, there is too much undigested vegetable matter that will consume nitrogen in the soil whilst degrading that you wish the crop to have available.

The nitrogen issue is not so serious for beans and peas as these fix N or at least the rhizomes do.

[Clot]

Horse s*1t is liable to strip the soil of available N for crops unless very well rotted. In the situation that the OP describes, I'd go for heffer or even bullsh1t.

[spamlet]

Depends on the top soil. If it has not been used for crops you may need no fertiliser, and such might give you loads of leaves and no roots, or - in your parsnips - multiforked roots. I should just make sure you keep it friable with organic material but not necessarily any strong fertiliser until you see what does well in your first year. Then, decide what if anything needs to be added to balance it.

S

[The Natural Philosopher]

This appears to be a statement based on pure fantasy.

For a more accurate description of the nitrogen cycles see

The nitrogen issue is not so serious for beans and peas as these fix N or at

[Tim Lamb]

Er.. no. I'll hold your coats if you like but...

See section 3 of the Nitrogen Transformations... ploughed down organic material, low in Nitrogen can temporarily use up available soil Nitrogen....

regards

[Clot]

Oops, I should have typed rhizobia.