We have recently bought a new house and are having problems resolving this..
Ok, we have french doors leading from dining room to garden, there is a sandstone step to garden. From the inside of the house you can see about an inch of the sandstone, then a plastic membrane of some sort, then the screed of the dining room floor. The inch of sandstone inside the house is wet. The developers response to this was to get the stone mason to put more of a slope on the step to encourage water to drain away from the door on the outside.
Here are some pics:
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want to lay wood flooring and the 'flooring fitter/joiner' says there is no way wood flooring should be fitted to this door as the stone is porous and wet, he says the door should be moved back and (I think) that the membrane should be between exterior and interior.
The developer's plan is one of the following, depending who's opinion you take as the developers are two individuals:
a) to seal the stone chemically in some way once the stone is dry (presumably in the spring / summer?)
or
b) just to allow an "indefinite" drying out period after which all will be well
Our questions are,
a) regardless of wooden flooring, are either of these propositions going to resolve the problem of the wet stone in the house? If no, what needs to be done?
b) do building regs cover this?
c) will we ever be able to fit our wooden flooring :-(
Unfortunately a porch is out of the question at the moment anyway, no cash for it, planning permission might be a problem, garden already tiny.
A drip board sounds like a great idea, but could you explain exactly what you mean by a better door seal? Would it be nessecary to remove and re-fit the door? Is this the seal between the door frame and the stone step?
Would the fitting of a drip board alone mean we could lay the wood flooring once the area was dry? I have added another pic of the outside of the door.
Are you sure the door frame has a proper thermal break? We inherited french doors that don't seem to and get a *lot* of condensation along the bottom of the frame which runs down onto the carpet/floor.
I could not really make out what is going on there at all.. but normally an exterior door has a sill (or cill) that means that water running down it has to drip a couple of inches way from it.
Then there should be a downward slope away from the door to carry that clear.
In addition you would expect a lip on the door frame base and a lip that overlaps it on the door..rain - driving rain - has to get under the sill, and teh door lip, and up and over the lip. This is an issue with the modern regulations on 'no step down from a door and hard paving up to it' to allow wheelchair access. If at all possible exterior paving should finish a few inches from the door, and the gap be gravel filled to avoid potential bridging of the DPC and splashing UPWARDS. .
Finally in a modern design one would expect a sealing strip on the lip on the door, so wind can't blow through anyway.
Oh fer ****'s sake. It all makes sense now..the paving is done properly. Step down, and a gravel gap. That's fine.
The door however and that awful raised concrete step - thats the problem. Driving rain will bounce off that and up over any silly lip the door has.
AND it looks like a wooden door which will inevitably warp, and not maintain a decent seal...
Your first line of attack is to get a some wood and make a drip type section..that is a piece of wood about 4" square that runs along the door base JUST clear of the ground. The top should slope down away from the door about 30-40 degrees, and there should be a groove or a sawcit abut 4mm wide and 5mm deep underneath,,the idea is that water running down the door, has to cone 4" clear off the door, then fall down, and it it tries to run backwards it meets the groove and can't go uphill, so falls off at the groove.
Here is something that may work
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searched in vain for the relevant building regulations or indeed a suitable drawing online..
Finally you need a compressible ribber strip between what is likely to be a raised metal strip set in the concrete step, and a similar strip set in the door base..
I am not clear as to whether that concrete door step thing actually comes inside..it should NOT and if it does it needs a DPM over it before you lay any flooring.
There's a possibility that the sandstone block is absorbing water externally and then wicking it under the doorframe. If you wanted to eliminate that, then one way might be to waterproof the inner section (only the inner section though, leave the external part to look after itself).
I would suggest applying repeated coats of something like Thompson's Waterseal until it's thoroughly saturated. Then after allowing a few weeks for it to dry fully, overpaint with a bitumenous roofing compound to finish the barrier.
If the water has been wicking underneath, this should ensure tat it never reaches the indoor floor surface, and you can lay anything you like on top of it. If you wanted one final precaution, then covering that area with an overlapping plastic sheet before laying the flooring would be an idea.
But.... I am a rank amateur, and you need to check out the other comments about rain-blown penetration etc first.
Firstly, that isn't sandstone, it's concrete, albeit a very weak, coloured concrete used to make fake sandstone.
That's a possibility, although you can't seal all of it because some of it is below (wet) ground.
That's akin to burying your head in the sand.
no.
not really
possibly, if you stop the water coming in. :-p
It looks to me like the rain is soaking through, I've seen it recently with real sandstone, and this past few weeks of driving rain have made it worse. I don't think it's rain getting directly through, because on the pic taken from outside, there are holes visible in a metal cill, these are weep holes that eject any water running down the doors and into the cill, so unless the metal cill is blocked, or is not sealed down onto the concrete, the water is penetrating through to the inside naturally.
It looks too close to the ground for my liking...how high is the step? - I'd get a bit more air to circulate around it, try removing those pebbles from the front, take a few inches out and allow it to breath for a while, you may find that it dries out naturally, in which case you may want to remove the slabs in front and drop it all down a bit and relay, if it's feasible.
If you're not in a rush to have your floor laid, you can seal it with thompson's in summer, although the dryer you can get it prior to this, the longer it will remain waterproof
Thankyou for advice, am at end of tether with property developers who so far do not accept there is a problem.
I think it is real sandstone as there is other real stone in/on the house. They have said it is real stone and pointed out that there are natural defects like iron stains on other sandstone bits - windows etc.. I will ask, but to be honest verbal comms are worthless as things agreed have been disputed later, will try and get acknowledgement in email, don't know what else to do, we are at a a loss...
Honestly, we are so disappointed in these property developers, we feel helpless and bullied, yes *bullied*, this is so stressful!
Is there nobody to turn to when buying a new house?
I am so tempted to name the property developers but am afraid of the consequences. Is that selfish...?
Firstly all the stuff about sealing, reprofiling the sandstone etc is bunkum and not a permanent solution and you know it really. The only professional to give you unbiased advice is the floor fitter and, as someone else says above, he is, of course, correct (because he is unbiased).
Now it's easy for us to say 'cos it's not our new home that's gone sour. OTOH no-one has died and it is fixable and you need to get away from this dominating your life! Get an independent builder in (preferably through personal recommendation and ask him. He will almost certainly say what the floor fitter said. Ask for a quote. At the end of the day you may have to deviate from the path of righteousness and pay yourself - it ain't right but how much of your life do you want to spend arguing and waiting? You can presenet the bill to the developers with a soilicitor's letter ("after getting independent advice etc") and make a small claims court claim and see what happens.
A less solid solution resulting in the floor deteriorating and lifting later would end up being just as bad.
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