Well OT - The apprentice has feally f****d it up this time

[ARW]

So do I get a free pencil or something?

[News]

In message , Rod Speed writes

Just to clarify my original comments, the OAPs I pictured when typing were widows who had almost certainly paid reduced stamp back in the day, so, after being widowed had very little to live on. Chances of finding them anywhere with an overloaded trolley at Christmas, zero. Bottle of British sherry from the Co-op, possibly.

This being rural Aberdeenshire, most of their husbands had been estate workers (agricultural), and they're still living in a tied cottage, two up two down, no central heating. Not an easy life. Certainly not impossible, but little left for luxuries, yet houses and occupants invariably smart in contrast to one of the local lairds I knew well. Titled chap, always turned up at the PO in the world's oldest brown overall, tied together with baling twine. I didn't even know he was titled until he made the news recently.

[Mike Barnes]

feally?

[Tim Streater]

Dear oh dear. You can't do sums *or* geography.

Any skoolboy could tell you that 6000 miles gets you to Capetown or so. And that site you so helpfully pointed me at gives Perth at over 10,000 and Sydney just under 11,000. Christchurch NZ is nearer 12k.

And yes, in saying Oz was 12k I overstated it a bit.

[JoeJoe]

Sad as it may be, isn't it how it is suppose to be?

If you don't work hard at school you end up doing a rubbish job that pays little, and unless you do something about it later on (training, education) you are going to have a rubbish life (financially at least). If you don't put something aside every week/month like the rest of us, then it is going to be even harder when you are old and need to rely on state pension. Some may say that the situation is even worse when not working at all.

Well, you make your own bed...

I agree that not every one can be the CEO of Apple etc, but I have yet to meet anyone who works hard that is hungry.

[JoeJoe]

It is not supposed to be.

Benefits are intended for those genuinely in need of help, and apart from exceptional circumstances (e.g. long term SERIOUS disability), should be used as a temporary measure.

[The Natural Philosopher]

The Scottish play, PLEASE!

are

[Dave Plowman (News)]

An accountant who couldn't understand VAT. Only in Oz...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Well, I suppose the one thing you can be sure of is the OAP is only temporary.

But of course you missed the point I was making.

It was stated that a single mother could live very well off the state.

I pointed out that she would get less money than an OAP couple.

So it follows that the same poster must think it's possible to live very well on the OAP.

[Bob Eager]

You are conflating benefits and pensions. The latter are a right.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I consider unemployment benefit a right - after paying NI for some 30 years before claiming it when being made redundant. Same with sickness benefit.

Although if IIRC I only ever got one payment before finding freelance work.

[harry]

They are where they are due to decisions they took earlier. There are consequenses for bad decisions.

[News]

Thank you. The point of the thread was to contradict those who suggested living on benefits or a basic OAP is easy. I don't think it is easy. Certainly doable, but not easy. Having said that, lumping together those of working age on benefits and those above retirement age on the basic state pension is not really equitable.

Talking about those on benefits, it took me a while to realise there is a huge black economy running, with many benefit recipients having multiple jobs, but not jobs in the sense most of us understand. Just a couple of hours here, a few hours there. Payment in cash. No NMW, no holiday pay, sickness benefit etc. No tax or NI, no contract, no security. No questions asked. Nothing in writing, all word of mouth.

Now, you may say that I should have reported these people. After all, as a taxpayer, I was supporting them! However, there was a risk my name would become known as a snitch which would kill my business stone dead, and make living in the village very difficult if not impossible. Thinking further, none of the employers employing this people could claim tax relief for wages paid illegally, and I doubt many of the employers could have survived if everything was above board and legal.

[Bob Eager]

I take your point; I should have perhaps added 'permanent' (subject to death of course).

I have only ever claimed one month's social security - and that was to pay rent etc. when I started work.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

No it's not. An OAP could reasonably be expected to have all the possessions etc they need. Very different from a young single mother starting out on her own. And OAP also gets free travel in most places. A young single mother will hopefully go to things like groups etc for support and company. And likely want to go out more than many OAPs.

I was simply making the point to those ostriches who think a single mother can have a very comfortable life on state benefits. Because if that were the case, an OAP couple could have an even more comfortable one on their higher amount. But the ostriches are simply too stupid to see this.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Unemployment benefit (or the modern equivalent) isn't permanent anyway.

I saved up from summer jobs etc from school. Made sure I had enough to get through the month before my first pay.

My experience of claiming unemployment benefit was very different to how I thought it would be from the stories the meja so often report. Those where every possible benefit is heaped on every claimant the second they ask for it.

I was told I wasn't entitled to any as I'd had a redundancy payment. Which was a lie. They also wanted me to go straight on to some sort of re-training scheme - when anyone with any real knowledge would have realised my best chance of earning a decent living would be as a freelance in my own field.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Generationally challenged. ;-)

[JoeJoe]

If a person hasn't contributed any taxes throughout their life, then their state pension is a benefit.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You don't get an OAP without having the necessary years of NI contributions.

[whisky-dave]

What about those arriving from syria or other countries where we get our employees and some OAPs ?