weak point in otherwise secure flat - ideas

[Chris Bacon]

He's just being evasive - a leapfrogging of goalposts will be next. Watch out for "Someone knocked on the door, and it was opened from within" or similar.

[nightjar]

If it were as easy as you suggest, the insurance companies would weight the premiums accordingly. As they don't, it seems they have no actuarial evidence that a 44mm thick timber door, with panels not less than 9mm thick, hung on a pair and a half of 4" metal hinges and fitted with locks at 1/3 and 2/3 the door height (i.e. as recommended by the Police) is any less secure than any other external grade door.

Colin Bignell

[emma_middlebrook]

Locksmith idea is good so I've got the local one (est 1891!) coming round for a look plus Banhams.

After a bit more thought, I'm currently thinking of getting one of those black ornamental grilles covering a good solid exterior door with a couple of those thumbturn-operated mortice locks plus bolts. I'll just replace the hollow interior one with a nice door but will have little, if any, security on it given that it'll limit damage. So this route can act as a fire exit as long as I can get a grille to open from the 'inside'!

It's coming together a little more - I'm now going to have to investigate door framing because the current outer one is only for a

35mm door!

Cheers for advice,

Emma

[meow2222]

no, I dont know whether his intent was burglary or violence but he was no policeman, and he ran very fast. I think it would be pretty irresponsible to sit here and tell all how to open front doors, so yes of course I shall be evasive on that particular point.

There are only so many burglars and a lot of houses, and that determines how many get done. And a lot do of course. Since most have only trivial security you dont need much to persuade a burglar to try next door instead. Any visible passing nod at security indicates more chance of the goods being postmarked, more chance that doors will be locked consistently, and so on.

The public seems to think traditional wood doors are secure, but the reality is the choice is made more on the burglars assessment of what they can get and what their odds are of not being caught. Putting a wooden door in a location where it can be worked on is entirely insecure.

NT

[meow2222]

no matter what I write Im just going to get more moronic answers from you. Good night.

NT

[Stuart Noble]

The weak point in any door is usually the hinge fixings

[Chris Bacon]

ITYS. :)

There's always e-mail, to avoid telling the world... "Oh, but you might be a burglar!"....

[Chris Bacon]

Wrong there, if you'd post a sensible answer, you'd get a result. However, I'm sure you won't, even by e-mail. Good Morning.

[Guy King]

The message from Chris Bacon contains these words:

I Think You Smell?

[meow2222]

congratulations on working out i wasnt going to tell everyone how to break in. I'm sure we're all real impressed.

god knows who he thinks i'd want to email with info on how to burgle, or why.

Mind boggling.

[Chris Bacon]

I don't know why you use "we" there. No-one else has said that "any burglar can get in through a wood door in seconds". Insurance companies don't charge more for properties with timber external doors. My local Crime Prevention Officer does not think timber doors are a problem. You made a statement, for an obvious reason, cannot back it up.

There you are.

[emma_middlebrook]

I've now sourced a potential place to get a 1/16" steel plate bolted to a 45mm solid core door for me. Also got someone who can install the door.

The three different sets of people are all local (i.e. the locksmith, carpenter and 'doormaker') so not bad going!

The door is going to open inwards (the steel plate's on the outside). It's going to have hinge reinforcing bolts, london bars, two thumb-turn mortice deadlocks.

Now I don't mind admitting to be a bit of a beginner on usenet but find it a bit better when talking face to face to know a bit more so I'm getting prepared for ordering ...

When a steel-plate is applied to the front of a door how much surface area should it cover? The whole front, or does it stop a little way from the edge - I'm wondering whether or not the plate fits behind the

2 cm or so of the door frame which 'hides' the edges of the door (i.e. so the door is really more like 47mm thick? Or is it normal that the steel-plate sits in front? E.g. for a 762mm wide door would the steel be the same width or, in this case about 730mm?

One more question. What is the usual ordering for painting, installing locks, hanging into doorframe?! It's going to come as an unpainted blank and I'm getting the set of locks and so on separately.

Thanks to everyone who suggested security ideas so far!

Emma

[meow2222]

You're the first person who has ever requested evidence that steel doors are harder to get into than wood!

NT

[meow2222]

sounds good. You can sleep in peace.

Its going to be more secure and look more secure if it covers everything. Wrap it round the 2 sides and its more secure still, then being attached directly to hinges, dog bolts and locks. It'll still be good without wraparound. Covering all also means no water getting trapped between steel and wood, whch would be a real problem..

paint last. It would be worth using car paint for the steel, much more durable than household gloss and not expensve.

NT

[emma_middlebrook]

I can't quite picture the super-wraparound version - I'm just trying to get it right so I can explain to the people what to do.

The sheet should wrap around the entire door including where the hinges would go and the locks i.e. wrap around horizontally? So, that would mean you'd have to cut out some holes in the steel plate for those. Also, won't it be a little difficult to install if the door has to be trimmed a little widthways when hanging? And if there's no metal covering the top and bottom bits of the door couldn't water get in between at that point, a bit like if it was just a sheet on the front?

Or do you mean wrap around vertically? Wouldn't that have similar hanging problems?

It sounds like a good plan but I just need to get it clarified a bit if possible please!

That's a really excellent tip, I'll definitely do that! Cheers

Emma

[meow2222]

the simple answer is to use flat sheet and have it come right upto to the edges on all 4 sides. Now for the wraparound version...

Wrapping your steel round the left and right sides, so the steel has a total of 2 right angle bends in it, would mean the steel engages with hinge and lock fixings on both sides. You would then either use surface hinges or put the hinges under the steel, and yes one has to drill holes in the steel for each screw. On the lock side, again one has to cut holes for the lock tongues to stick out of. Fit lock to wood, then fit steel to door.

But I dont think you need go to all the extra work of wraparound steel.

ha! would be a nightmare job. Theres one dimension you would not want to get wrong.

at the top the metal is behind the frame, so it would be very clever rain that got in there. If you blasted it with a hose it would though.

At the bottom, upward travelling water could get in. The best preservatives to treat the woodwork with before applying the steel are:

1. creosote - pongs, kills plants and no longer available
2. 50/50 (new) engine oil and paraffin or diesel - flammable until dry, works and lasts much better than anything I ever got from any diy shed.

A strip of soft material fixed to the outside of the bottom of the door would stop all possibility of splash penetration. Rubber for example. It would be fitted just like a draught excluder, but would be to exclude splashback from rain. I had imagined it would be in a sheltered position, but of course it may not be.

Its a lot more work, I'd stick with flat sheet to be honest. 3 edges of that sheet will be behind your new steel frame. At that point I think a bugrlar would move on.

NT