WC issue - please help!

[Mrs Mouse]

Hi

Sorry to post here if wrong group but I am after some answers to a couple of questions and I have been pointed in this direction!

I have just moved into a rented property (23/07) and the downstairs wc appears to be having some difficulties. In the mornings, there is a dreadful chemical stench which seems to go after a little while (or we get used to it - not sure which!). The landlord was informed of this problem, initially 4 weeks ago and a few more times since, but is not forthcoming with either any answers or repairs.

The wc is vented appropriately (it is in the middle of the house and there is an extractor fan in there), the smell appears to be there in the mornings, regardless of whether the door is open or not which leads me to believe that we become accustomed to the smell after a short while rather than it dissipating, the smell is a definite chemical smell rather than an 'organic waste(!)' smell but cannot be described further. The soil stack in the toilet is about 5 inches higher than the cistern (so about 3.5ft-ish total) and I believe it to be fitted with an aav or durgo valve, but cannot confirm.

My questions are:

a) what is causing this smell? b) is it harmful (we have 3 children aged 7,5 and 3 as well as my husband and myself) c) what can I do to fix it?

Many thanks in advance for your help/advice!

Clare

[Set Square]

Can you tell where the smell is coming from - toilet pan, top of the stack, washbasin, etc.? Does the thing at the top of the stack look something like

? If so, it's probably an air admittance valve (AAV).

I assume that the smell is coming from the sewer by one means or another. It seems to me that the most likely possibilities are:

• the AAV is letting gas *out* as well as taking it in, or

• the AAV isn't working at all - with the result that any depressions in the sewer will 'pull' the traps in the washbasin and/or shower tray - removing the water barrier and giving a direct air path to the sewer. As soon as you have flushed some water down whatever it is, the barrier is restored.

If one or more traps *are* being pulled, you need to ensure that the AAV

*is* working, and possibly replace the traps with deeper ones - particularly if you only have a simple U bend at the moment.

[Dave Jones]

Are you sure its just in the mornings, and not when you flushed the upstairs loo?

Is the valve working? If valve is jammed closed, water could be being sucked out of the pan, letting air through.

Inform environment health, refuse to pay rent until problem sorted.

[bigcat]

Its your landlords job to get it fixed.

Tell landlord you'll do that if he doesnt deal with it. Only if he doesnt would you need that type of action.

NT

[Mrs Mouse]

particularly

Thanks for your quick reply :)

The top of the soil stack doesn't look like the picture. It's a screw-on cap-type top (like those on a coffee jar is probably the best way I can describe it!) about 5" diameter, just over an inch deep and flat on the top. Haven't unscrewed it completely as I'm a little afraid what I may unleash!

Not entirely certain where exactly the smell is coming from either - the wc is extremely small! I'm pretty sure that the smell disappears prior to a flush, but my husband disagrees - although that could be a speed issue IYSWIM! Have just been in to see if I can smell it, and I can, but not as pungent as it is first thing in the morning - probably due to overnight build-up (or lack thereof)!

I googled this issue and found an article telling me that I may drop dead soon from Hydrogen Sulphide inhalation - hence my slight anxiety! However please don't mistake me for a neurotic woman who believes everything the internet tells her lol! This was my reasoning for asking here rather than checking myself into the local hospital!!!!

Thanks again

Clare

[Mrs Mouse]

Thank for your reply.

Just sent his lordship upstairs to flush the loo and the smell didn't get any worse (or better!) downstairs afterwards.

Upon flushing downstairs loo, not noticed all the water being sucked out, but (very) occasionally the loo does fill to the top and then very rapidly return to normal level.

Don't know if it makes any difference but we are an end house so probably on the end of a run.

Sorry I can't be more precise, not sure of any of the terminology and trying not to sound like a total imbecile!

I shall try environmental health in the morning and see if that forces landlord into action, but if there is anything I can do in the meantime to solve this issue I will as it's not particularly pleasant to live with!

Clare

[Mrs Mouse]

Hi

Thanks for your reply. I'm getting a bit fed up with living with this smell whilst he is dragging his heels over this matter. If it is a simple (and preferably cheap) problem to fix, I am more than willing to deal with it just to get it done! If it is a complex job that's going to cost - it's all his!

Clare

[Owain]

Nothing, because it's a rented property. Suggest contacting Environmental Health at local council, and putting complaint in writing to landlord.

Owain

[Davide]

[i]

I googled this issue and found an article telling me that I may dro dead soon from Hydrogen Sulphide inhalation - hence my slight anxiety! However please don't mistake me for a neurotic woman who believes everythin the internet tells her lol! This was my reasoning for asking here rathe than checking myself into the local hospital!!!!

Thanks again

Clare

If it's hydrogen sulphide (which I doubt), then the smell would be mor appropriately defined as rotten eggs, rather than "chemical". If it doe not smell like rotten eggs, then don't worry about the H2S...

Good luck!

David

-- Davide

[Set Square]

It's not an AAV then - it just a removeable cap to provide rodding access.

What else is in the same room as the offending toilet - is it a bathroom with any or all of bath, bidet, washbasin, shower cubicle - or is it just a very small room with just a bog?

I'm a bit confused about upstairs/downstairs. How many toilets are there altogether? Is the offending one up or down? Is the smell just local to this toilet, or does it permeate to other parts of the house?

[Mrs Mouse]

Hi again

It is a very small room with a loo and a very small handbasin. It's the downstairs loo that is causing the problem and we cannot smell the smell anywhere else. Something is boxed in behind the toilet, but it is not the cistern or the soil stack as they are visible. Think possibly just the pipes boxed in not anything else. There is an upstairs loo in the bathroom.

Further to Davide's answer - it is not an eggy smell, although we could smell this a couple of weeks ago in the kitchen, the door to which is directly opposite the wc, for the entire evening but could not determine where exactly this was coming from - just seemed to fill the kitchen. Wasn't from outside as smell eased when we opened back door to ventilate the room. Also seemed to be isolated to the kitchen and not coming from the wc so not certain the incidents are related at all.

Not sure what else I can add.

Thanks again for your help

Clare :)

[Richard Conway]

You could try leaving the plug in the sink and bunging the overflow up with something overnight - if there is no smell in the morning then somthing is probably causing the trap on the basin to empty. At least then you will have isolated the problem a little.

(of course you could simply take the trap off one morning and check it has water in there)

[Mrs Mouse]

I'll give that a go tonight. Thanks for the suggestion.

What could be causing the trap to empty and how would I solve such an issue?

Thanks again for your help.

Clare

[Christian McArdle]

A malfunctioning AAV valve would be a prime candidate. The act of washing your hands after first use in the morning would refill the trap and remove the smell.

AAVs are looked down upon due to their capacity to malfunction in this manner. Venting to the roof line is much more reliable.

Christian.

[Set Square]

I was going to make the same suggestion about leaving the plug in overnight - but Richard got there first!

Traps get emptied when there is a partial vacuum in the sewer pipe which sucks them dry. AAV's are designed to prevent that by allowing air in - but not allowing any (or smells!) out. You could fit an AAV at the top of your sub-stack rather than the existing cap and/or you could fit a deeper trap which is less likely to get 'pulled' - especially if you have the wash-basin equivalent of this

at the moment.

You could replace it with one of these:

first, make sure that this *is* the problem!

[Mrs Mouse]

Will try the 'leave plug in' test tonight.

The trap on the basin is the second one - the bottle trap. Is it likely that this would need replacing or would the problem be elsewhere?

Sorry for so many questions - I'm in unknown territory at the moment lol

Thanks again

Clare

[Christian McArdle]

The problem is probably that your AAV is knackered, or even that it isn't an AAV at all, but just a cap. Can you post a photo?

However, it could possibly be the basin trap as well. Even with a working AAV, a bottle trap might be sucked out if the flush is particularly vigourous.

Christian.

[Set Square]

There's more than depth of bottle trap - so you may be able to get a deeper one.

Is there any evidence of the trap leaking, and emtying itself onto the floor overnight?

[Mrs Mouse]

No - no evidence of this at all!

Thanks

Clare

[Dave Jones]

Sounds like the air admitance valve is stuck, if your brave enougth or get hubby to do it, remove and see if it is working. (open windows)