Way to go den ...

[dennis]

Because the stupid ambulance driver had to stop for the accident they caused as in this case?

Ah....

Maybe you will read the posts before making a fool of yourself next time?

[dennis]

I'm sure you would have kids and other innocents run down to get to you. However most would prefer the driver to take a bit more care.

[dennis]

Lets see.. how many blind people use the roads? how many deaf people use the roads? how many kids use the roads? Now do you sound foolish?

So why hadn't you moved over far enough?

[Andy Hall]

We don't have the full details other than that there was plenty of signaling that an emergency vehicle was approaching. This is not the same as any old car driving along.

Answer the question. If you had been the patient, would you have preferred the ambulance to get to you quickly or would you have preferred to be dead?

[Andy Hall]

So answer the question. If you had been the patient, what would you want to happen? Dead dog or dead you?

[The Medway Handyman]

They don't return to base after a call, they go to RVP's to await another call. Thats why you see them on bridges etc.

Current solution is the FRU - Fast Respnse Unit, a Vauxhall Zapheria with a crew of one, equipped fairly well but unable to transport patients.

Govmint target is 8 mins for a Cat A call, from the time of call, not the time the control operator actually gets the address.

Not considered in the Govmint target, simply the reponse time, not the patient outcome.

Alas not, ambulance personel are human.

[Tim S]

dennis@home coughed up some electrons that declared:

Generally have dogs who are specifically trained to pay attention and if not, I don't think you'll find many who can miss the sirens.

Would be looking diligently (I have deaf people in my family, believe me, they don't take a quick look then wander across with their head in a newspaper.

Your only substantial point so far. I'm training my kids to stop, look and listen to quote the old 1970's film.

Seems I'm in good company.

OK - well legislate that all emergency vehicles maintain the speed limit no matter what. Will you be happy on the day (and I hope you don't) need their services?

Unless you've found a way to allow solid matter to pass through solid matter, it was otherwise impossible. Next time I'll take photos just so I can argue the toss with you dennis.

You may have the last word :-D

Cheers

Tim

[Andy Burns]

Dead dog every time, and don't stop afterwards!

But my point wasn't the relative value of human life over animal life, rather could the ambulance driver have avoiding running it over if it hadn't been a dog?

- If so then why not avoid the dog too and therefore avoid having to stop after the accident?

- If not then why does the value of the life in the back of the ambulance exceed that of anyone who happens to be unable to get out of the way?

[Andy Burns]

I've only just started to notice them doing that round here (Leicester) I've noticed a paramedic often parks in the middle of a large busy roundabout on the ring road.

I hope you're not taking it personally on her behalf, did it shake her up, or is it just part of the job?

[PeterMcC]

Andy Hall wrote in

"...you must report the accident to the Police as soon as possible, but within 24 hours. This is a legal requirement under the Road Traffic Act

1988"

Greater Manchester Police:

24 hours, there may have been time to get the patient to the hospital and still report the accident.

[Andy Hall]

Valid points.

The owner apparently did get out of the way but the dog didn't which raises the question of whether the owner had the dog properly under control.

I was really making a different point though.

- It's possible for somebody to be run over just by carelessly stepping off of the pavement. Outcome can be death or injury from that whether the vehicle is traveling at 30 or 60MPH. In a busy High St. it's more likely to be lower speed.

- We do accept that emergency vehicles should be able to travel faster than the rest of the traffic and to make a lot of noise to encourage it to move out of the way as well as notifying pedestrians of the approach of the vehicle. One doesn't often read of emegency service vehicle drivers having problems or being criticised if they do.

Essentially, we want to have emergency backup quickly because tomorrow we may be having a problem. Therefore we have to accept that there is a higher level of risk when vehicles move quickly. The operators do attempt to train the drivers to do a good driving job.

We could choose to say that emergency drivers must follow all traffic law at all times. This might reduce accident rates a little. However, it would make a much larger impact on outcome at emergencies. On balance, we choose to take that risk and so we really can't then criticise the driver if something happens when they have followed their training and procedures properly.

[Andy Hall]

This is all fine when one is sat at a computer keyboard with the benefit of time and a coffee.

It's a touch harder when one is making split second decisions with life/death implications.

[PeterMcC]

Andy Hall wrote in

My apologies -I'm sure that you're absolutely right. I had hoped that the information might have been helpful - it certainly wasn't meant to be point scoring.

[The Medway Handyman]

Saves time & fuel. She did her fast track course in Leicester with EMAS, lived in Saxby Street.

Compared to what she encounters on a daily basis it was nothing. Bex & her crewmate actually thought it was funny - they develop a rather black sense of humour in that job.

[The Medway Handyman]

Its LAS policy to report immediately & use another truck - don't know why.

[The Medway Handyman]

Not in this instance.

The particular Zebra crossing was one of those staggered ones with a central island & barriers, not possible to swerve.

[The Medway Handyman]

Oddly, you have to pass your PSV licence (at your expense) in order to get employed by LAS, very little specific on the job training as far as driving goes. They do a few days on skid pan & stuff, but thats about it.

Bex has recently started on the FRU's (fast respose units) which use 1.8 Vauxhall Zafira's, quite a quick car. They get one shift's worth of training.

[Stephen Howard]

Clearly not. What's puzzling is that the dog was on a lead, so at the very least it should have been 'at heel'. Even if it wasn't, it should have been yanked out of the way. Any other such behaviour on a public highway is just plain dangerous. I suppose it's reasonable for the driver of the ambulance to make the assumption that if the owner has heard and reacted to the siren, they'd ensure the dog would as well.

Then again it's perhaps a variation on the theme of mums standing at the side of the road with a pushchair in front of them, and the pushchair protruding a foot or so onto the carriageway. Seen than plenty of times.

Regards,

[dennis]

It probably runs in the family.

Changing the story again? You said they were on their way to an incident, so why were they taking a cardiac arrest victim there? As it happens there is less reason to go fast with a cardiac victim in the back than when going there. They should have started the treatment and its rather hard to continue when the ambulance is being chucked about. You really are on a loser here so why not give up?

[dennis]

It was a dead dog this time, next time it might be a pushchair. Do you want ambulance drivers running people down to get there faster? They should have avoided the dog, they didn't so it shows a problem that needs rectifying, either by training or by replacement.