water meter

[Mary Fisher]

There are people like that but if they don't count any cost to themselves or anyone else they're not likely to even look at their water bills.

I'd hope that if they had to pay by the unit some might think twice about the need to have a sparkling car, about collecting roof water for the garden and somehow to restrict their flush flow.

It's not just everyone who can afford it who squanders money though ...

That's another argument for universal water metering.

Quite. They don't feel the need to wash cars, water gardens, fill paddling pools, flush lavatories - especially all done with purified drinking water.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Yes, but as part of an integrated awareness exercise it might make people think more about that too. You have to start somewhere, we've had it too good for too long.

Mary

[Vera]

I am sure you are right - today. I do have a teenaged daughter addicted to baths (and she will be off to Uni in October) but apart from that we do not use a great deal of water.

I am sure you are wrong once the whole country is metered.

I just hate the idea that one day, some people will not be able to afford clean, fresh drinking water and that WILL happen once the whole country is metered. I know I am tilting at windmills but I will never have a water meter until I am forced to.

[Peter Scott]

.

Normally I find myself agreeing with what you say, Mary. For once I don't think I do. Purifying water does not so far I know use a lot of energy. Bacteria do all the work. The energy is only needed to turn the spray bars and do some pumping. I think that water is so central and essential that it should be sold as cheaply as possible without profit. I was on a Chamber of Commerce commitee when the whole shebang was being privatised. There were only two of us who had doubts about it. I could not see what benefit there was. If profits have to be distributed then prices would go up. Efficiency in private companies is often poor. Councils generally ran water plants well.

As so it has come to pass. We are now made to feel bad about watering our gardens, giving our kids a bit of fun in the summer and *flushing the bog*. Oh tempera, oh mores!

Just as with rail, water should be nationalised. The whole privatisation idea is a disaster and this lot of industrial lap-dogs are worse than the Tories. At least the Tories could smell a rat from their mates and knew that they were only doing it to make a buck. This lot of preachers don't knwo their a**es from their apices.

What's needed is to stop wasting water. It should be recycled through multiple purifiers rather than piped down to the sea and thrown away. Yes, we are short of rain in some parts of this country but by re-use we could all have all we wanted.

I was interested by the comment about meters and resale. Meters are yet another family-unfriendly device. I won't have one because I have a large family-type house and don't want to put people off with a meter. I chuckle when I hear people congratulating themselves on the savings they've made. Just wait to see what impact there will be on the price of the house.

That's it. Rant over!

Peter Scott

[chris French]

No one looking at our house to buy even asked about he water supply charging.

So? if those on the old system don't like it they can easily change

[Capitol]

No Spam wrote: Of course if capital expenditure can be

This is cloud cuckoo land. It should read "some rateable value customers support them, some metered customers get screwed"! The water companies inherited no debt and released large amounts of capital back to their shareholders, then went and borrowed money to operate with, thereby incurring borrowing (increased operating) costs. They still paid (and pay) ridiculously high dividends to shareholders, compared to the market average. The water companies now want to increase their capital expenditure without costing their shareholders a penny. ie, there is no rights issue to raise risk capital, instead the prices are being increased to generate cash for investment and to repay the unnecessary loans which they incurred in the first place. It is now a zero risk business and needs financial controls with teeth. Ofwat are clearly incompetent, if we can see the trees, they should be able to. In any other business, competition and regulation would reduce the prices (except in the UK and the EU!). The objectives should be to obtain capital, increase the volume sold, compete and to efficiently generate a return for the shareholders. I am opposed to metered water, I believe that most consumers are reasonably responsible and don't waste water. I am appalled at the variation in water costs between areas (Cornwall etc) and believe that the way in which the system operates is grossly unfair to many young low income families.

If someone wishes to do the sums, here's what it costs in a Chicago suburb.

Regards Capitol

[T i m]

That may of been down to several things ..

They were light water users so knew it wouldn't impact them much .. Didn't get round to asking those sorts of questions at that stage .. Assumed that it you had one they would be stuck with it anyway ..

I don't understand that bit?

All the best ..

T i m

[chris French]

In message , Peter Scott writes

We have a family, we don't find it off putting, as I said even with 2 adults and 2 children (in typical 3 bed 1930's semi) a pretty large garden etc. we still beat the fixed charges on our meter, and that's with no particular effort to limit consumption.

We just sold our house, it has a meter, we got the asking price (and good one at that) in 12 days, the question of being on meter was never mentioned.

[chris French]

In message , Peter Scott writes

We have a family, we don't find it off putting, as I said even with 2 adults and 2 children (in typical 3 bed 1930's semi) a pretty large garden etc. we still beat the fixed charges on our meter, and that's with no particular effort to limit consumption.

We just sold our house, it has a meter, we got the asking price (and good one at that) in 12 days, the question of being on meter was never mentioned.

We are buying a house in Cambridgeshire, meter or not really wasn't an issue for us (though as it happens, most did seem to have meters) I'm sure there are few people who would be deterred, but I think the impact is limited.

[chris French]

In message , T i m writes

Waste is charged at a per m^3 rate at 95% of water consumption

[chris French]

In message , T i m writes

Oh sure it could be down to many reasons, my point was just that it didn't seem to impact on our house sale. In fact given that our house was the quickest to sell in our road for a long time I could argue the opposite if I really wanted to.

I'm not saying this might not be an issue for some people, but I think the concern expressed here by some gives it much to much weight.

Anyway, our water bills are the lowest of our bills I should think.

[Tony Bryer]

People with gardens, hoses and unmetered water are capable of using large amounts without thinking about it. Also look at the various threads here in which people say that the shower volume produced by even the largest combi is inadequate. Both these groups would not consider themselves to be wasting water but they probably use twice the average or more.

[Mary Fisher]

...

WHY?

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Me too. I avoid going when I can.

Where they are they're far too high. Our local coppers are very experienced :-)

Our medication comes in individually foil wrapped packs. One day such civilisation might get to your parts :-)

You still relying on Culpeper's remedies???

Like being able to spell?

How many times have I told you, it's "symptoms". The p is silent as in swimming.

ah! That could explain a lot!

In my experience that's the only thing to do with what you're given. I suspect that presents of drink go round in circles.

Hmm. I shan't answer that ...

But since this is a diy group I'll say that I did used to make wine and mead, about a gallon a week, and brew beer and stout. Some of it was excellent.

Some wasn't.

There are those who claim that the drinks they made were/are always far superior to anything you can buy. I don't believe them.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Huge amounts.

Yes.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Good Heavens! And you're admitting it here???

Wotchit ... tar sticks.

I'm not saying that all privatised water companies are efficient (or that all LAs were) but I do know that 'Yorkshire Water' is very efficient and I'm proud to be associated with what they do.

Apparently we're not made to feel bad about it!

'Twas always thus.

I agree 100%

We don't congratulate ourselves about what we save, that's not why we had a meter installed.

As for the re-sale of our house, that doesn't matter to us either, not that I think the meter will be the most off-putting feature.

We have to take a bigger view and not think in purely selfish, greedy terms. Our water meter is part of the whole way of life we've chosen. We put our money where our mouths are. If we save on water bills for the present it's spent on not supporting intensive food production. Swings and roundabouts.

It wasn't all that much of a rant - you'll have to do better than that.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

I'm sorry you're leaving the broad acres, Chris. Will you be telling us where your new abode is?

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

That's interesting, I suppose I might have known that once but couldn't haveplucked it out just like that!

Mary

[Owain]

This is why we in Scotland -- a country short of neither rainfall nor lochs and reservoirs in which to store it -- have to pay more for our public water than customers of private-sector water companies in England.

If I can choose competitive gas and electricity suppliers why can't I do the same for water?

There is very little that councils run well, and even less that unelected quangos run well.

Owain

[Owain]

Why should metered water be any different from metered gas, electricity, telephone -- or cabbages at Tesco for that matter?

Owain