Water Conditioners

Hi,

Has anyone used these??

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they work??

I am thinking of getting one but would just like to know if they do what they claim.

Thanks.

Nigel

Reply to
Nigel
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Nigel" saying something like:

I really wish the TSA would develop some teeth and take those companies to the cleaners. Boiling in camel shit's too good for 'em.

In other words - they don't work. They're a con, a trap, a means of separating money from you, but backed up with pseudoscience that hops, skips and slides all over the place with dodgy claims of effectiveness.

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

The message from "Nigel" contains these words:

There has never been any reliable data showing that they actually have the effect you want. Some studies (IIRC) have shown that there can be some effects, but not the eliminiation of scale on a large - er - scale.

Reply to
Guy King

results page is odd. A 30 day test that shows pipes from two different systems (were they even similar apart from the device ?) and nothing showing scale being removed. The flash animation shows scale coming off the area where the device is fitted. What about the rest of the system ?

Quoting from another article about this device.

"A friend of mine bought one and it has got a green light on all the time and a green and amber one which flashes from one colour to the other, and he is chuffed to bits with the flashing lights !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Jon

Reply to
Jonathan Schneider

The message from Jonathan Schneider contains these words:

Magic. I wonder if he's like this automatic gas economising system I've invented. It clips harmlessly to the side of the meter with magnets, and cleverly flashes a light every time you open the cupboard door to ensure you that the £30 you spent is still worth while.

Reply to
Guy King

Written by myself not long ago...

***************** Nigel,

You read my mind! I've been thinking the same thing, except I was trying to work out the differences between the following 3 products...

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all claim to the be the best, they all do (practically) the same thing.. the only differences are the prices!! And now with your link to Water Imp, that's four to choose from!! Although I'm glad to see the Imp is only £95!!

So has anyone used ANY of these products before?!?!

***************** Don't you just hate it when you post in one group only to find an entire conversation about the subject in another group?!?! Anyway.. since everyone says they're a waste of money, what IS the best way to get my water softer?!!? _____________________________ The Grim Reaper
Reply to
The Grim Reaper

Move to a soft water area.

Now, here's a thought. How do house prices correlate with water softness? London and SE - hard water and high prices. Wales and Scotland

- soft water and low prices.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

I tried several in a test rig some years ago, the electronic ones had no effect at all. A permanent magnetic one showed a very small effect but only after the same water had been re-circulated through it many times (over 50 passes).

Reply to
Peter Parry

I'm really, really, really sorry to be the one fly in the ointment but............. the wife bought one of these a couple of years ago as she said she was fed up with cleaning the shower head & kettle every few days. I duly fitted it, knowing full well that it wouldn't make the slightest difference.............................and................................ it HAS made a difference - not a major difference but there is a lot less scale build up in kettle & shower. Maybe the water company changed the supply of water to the property at the same time as I fitted - who knows ? By all means call me a muppet but it worked for me. Franko

Reply to
Franko

Questionable.... well doubtfull really.

The more interesting question is what problem are you trying to solve?

The prevention of scale deposition in a heating appliance, or the softening of the water for general usage? There are a number of ways of achiving the former, but only an ion exchange water softner will do the latter.

Reply to
John Rumm

Indeed. However I have a water SOFTENER and get NO build up of scale in the shower at all.

The kettle is a different matter, since the kitchen tap is deliberately 'unsoftened'

However it doesn't build up that fast anyway.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Only? The construction cost of these things must be about GBP3-5 in quantities of about 1,000. R&D must add at least 0.05p to that and advertising about another GBP10

Not a bad markup.

Reply to
Peter Parry

I've done a bit of electronics in my time... wonder if there's a circuit diagram floating about to produce the "correct frequencies". It'd be nice to produce some scientific evidence to send to these rip-off merchants..!! ____________________________________ The Grim Reaper

Reply to
The Grim Reaper

Both Practical Electronics (as was) and Elektor have published designs based upon manufacturers often lurid descriptions and measurements they took off commercial ones. It is often interesting to read the mutually exclusive statements such as "9VDC unregulated supply...costs about £3 per year to run" "use very powerful low frequency signals which effectively treat all conditions of water and flow rates" "transmit these signals asynchronously via an aerial to create a strong magnetic field,"

Powerful? Strong? Using 10 turns of wire at a few milliamps!

The "microprocessor technology" some claim is usually a £0.30p PIC chip, the main job of which is to flash the fancy lights in attractive sequences.

I think the one I tried was a Scalewatcher - like all it claimed to work through lead, plastic, steel or copper pipes and generated a weak signal of varying frequency in steps from about 1 to 6KHz. There was no explanation of quite how this signal was supposed to go through steel pipes and it had no measurable effect whatsoever on the water passed through it even when re-circulated through the device many times.

The only regular independent test of water treatment devices is the Germany W512 test by DVGW. Basically the test requires a reduction of 80% in scale formation. Perhaps unsurprisingly no electronic or permanent magnet units submitted have ever passed this test although both ion exchange and phosphate dosing units have.

The result has been that there is now huge resistance from the UK manufacturers and sellers of magnetic and electronic devices to having W512 adopted as a British Standard in the UK. The UK Physical Water Conditioning Association had stopping the acceptance of W-512 as a recognised UK standard as one of their main objectives. They claimed that the test only involved very small volumes of synthetic water over a short period of time and could not be representative of conditions experienced in typical installations throughout the UK.

Synthetic water?

In Germany one beneficial effect of the standard has been to limit commercial installations to only W-512 products. A not so beneficial side effect has been to dump on the UK market those German or Austrian products that have not passed it.

Reply to
Peter Parry

You want about 1Hz alternate flashing of the LEDs. That creates a reassuring and calming effect on the observer.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Time to dig out that old 555 chip from college... __________________________ The Grim Reaper

Reply to
The Grim Reaper

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