warmfront grant

Actually I think it's *not* paying enough attention to fine detail: it's easier for the poorly educated bureaucrat to create regulations with a broad brush than to put his or her poorly trained mind to the task of working out what the optimum solution should be.

You only have to read of the bureaucratic nonsense Bill describes so well below to see why most ordinary folk hold any kind of "authority" in contempt: they haven't a feckin' clue how the real world works.

Actually, that's not always true, they've just had the ability to act sensibly taken away from them by over prescriptive legislation and fearful, incompetent and over-promoted middle management.

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Perhaps you need to be educated into the broader spectrum of taxpayers money being squandered,like...1700 army rental accommodation homes are lying empty and the MOD(Goverment) is still paying the rent or...nah! I won't go into that side for fear of being called a racist.

Reply to
George

An hour is pretty impressive. Still be a week or two for parts though I bet! :)

Reply to
Mogga

That's rather impertinent. What on earth makes you think I need any education on that rather narrow point? I thought we were discussing Warmfront and how taxpayers' money should not be spent on cosmetics while there are still folks who are cold. There aren't, by definition, any folks living in empty accommodation.

That was probably a good decision ......

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Seemingly some don't, but perhaps they don't top post.

Reply to
Andy Hall

In article , George writes

Oh yes, right, I agree with you there, I just wanted to say that 'some' of Warmfront is actually quite good. I think I would prefer to have more control over central heating but then there are central heating installers that are just as awful as those mentioned, even when being paid by the customer! Surely the co ordinators of the scheme will blacklist those firms that cost the more money? Wouldn't the council try to recoup the cost of the repairs?

Reply to
Janet Tweedy

In article , George writes

Many of those are so substandard that civvies won't move in to them. Likewise they are often in out of the way spots where you can't get to towns easily for work, the army is usually based in the middle of nowhere.

In the 70's it was really difficult to get a quarter, but they were safe and as clean as you liked to make them. No central heating or luxury fittings but gradually they were having 2 radiators installed. I am not (security-wise) that mixing troops and housing for immigrants is a great idea. The camps can't be segregated or have the access monitored as safely . Still times have probably changed :)

Reply to
Janet Tweedy

Hi, I said I'd let you know how this went and sorry about the length of my message.

New system installed on Wed, 3 guys (plus a 4th at times to remove the junk from the old system) - 1 day.

Plus, Tuesday, items delivered and carpet fitter lifted top & bottom hall carpets and loosened others around radiator sites, Thursday, Sparky connected time switch, room stat, CO monitor and smoke alarm. He evn left us with a cold alarm in case we were to feeble to know that we were too cold! (He had been held up with additional jobs elsewhere on the Wednesday). Carpet fitter returned to refit carpets.

All new pipework, fitted underfloor. Boiler fitted in the same location as the old one, an internal cupboard off the ground floor hall. The old vertical flue removed up to the loft (still in situ in the loft, I'll utilise that for a bathroom extractor fan hopefully) and replaced with a horizontal one through the cupboard wall, along the kitchen above the wall cupboards and out through the back wall. (I expected I would need to box this in but it is unseen from floor level).

I am happy with the work. They connected the tails for the bathroom towel rail for me and fitted the radiator intended for the bathroom to the cloackroom (at a cost of £60)

I'm happy with the time taken to fit, although not the 4 month wait. The 3 lads have worked together as a team doing this program for 5 years and although each installation is different they have worked up a head of steam so to speak.

The system seems fine, although...

  1. there is a noticeable reduction in the hot water flow as expected but I still get a good wash from our Aqualisa Axis digital shower;
  2. the plume from the vent plays havoc with the security light and I'm going to have to move it or get a vertical extension for the vent outlet;
  3. and this is one some of you may be able to advise me on, the installers recon that the radiators don't need to be balanced these days ??? that's not what I'm getting from here.

British Gas have still to inspect their work and certify it. I'll see what their opinion is. Thanks for your help,

Bill

Reply to
Bill

It will probably work OK if they aren't, unless you have a really bad case of giant radiators on the longest pipe runs. It will work better if they are, particularly with a condensing boiler in order to try and get the optimum temperature drop. You could do this yourself -- there are instructions in the FAQ. You need to be aware if any of the radiator circuit forms a bypass loop though, so you don't shut that down too much.

I rather suspect many heating installers just wouldn't understand what balancing a system is really doing and why, or the more intricate points of how and why a condensing boiler is more efficient. Some time ago, Drivel was repeating what he claimed to have read in a training manual which seemed to be aimed at turning school drop-outs into plumbers, and that suggested not balancing the system (microbore IIRC). If someone really has no hope of understanding what balancing is doing and how it works, it probably is better than they don't even attempt it in most cases. A system with all the lockshields fully open will probably work better than one where they're randomly set all over the place. A correctly set system would be best of course.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Do the radiators have TRV's on them?

If they do it's not quite so critical the house will all still get warm, eventually, just rather unevenly. As Mr Gabriel says you will get the best out of a balanced system, TRV's or not.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

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No giants but the one in the cloakroom, designed for the bathroom, is a bit larger than it should be and probably on the longest run on the ground floor.

Yes condensing combi fitted but temperature drop hasn't been measured. An even temperature has been achieved throughout the house so I'm happy with that, I just don't want to be paying for more gas than I need to so I'll give it a go.

15mm pipework fitted in my case and I agree that either the team may have been unsure of balancing them but I'm inclined to think it was a time issue as they are paid by the job, not by the time it takes.

Thanks for the reassurance Andrew, Bill

Reply to
Bill

Thanks Dave, just as I thought. TRVs fitted to all bar the hall which has the room stat. Sorry I should have added that.

Bill

Reply to
Bill

The TRV's will eventually balance the system provided there are enough radiators to heat the house.

Depending on the pipework layout the system may be 'naturally balanced' by virtue of having few radiators that are much closer to the boiler than any others.

Balancing is one of those things that make the difference between OK and good systems, customers don't see the need (especially the one that thing a £1000 will get them a new heating system ).

Reply to
Ed Sirett

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Thanks Ed,

What I'm picking up is that the installers are not correct with what they told me about not balancing rads, but they are not as wrong as I first thought.

I suppose that means I can't justify to the wife I need a trip to Maplins for one of these fancy temperature probes in another recent thread. We do have a cat as well so I could tell her I need to check his temperature. LOL.

Thanks to all,

Bill

Reply to
Bill

It'll probably enjoy chasing the red dot more :-p

Reply to
Colin Wilson

So basically your old CH system was replaced with new tat and existing rads taken out and replaced in the same location?

Thats fine but its a different scenario when they have to install a CH fro scratch.

Reply to
George

Yes that's right. The old one was condemned because of the flue but I now have a new boiler, controls (basic), rads, TRVs and new pipework. Nothing remains. Even the pipework was laid in a slightly different route. So what's different to installing from scratch as far as balancing is concerned?

Bill

Reply to
Bill

All that work for free and you're unhappy with the wait? That's a bit churlish isn't it?

You could have had it done much sooner if it was really that important to you - if you'd paid for it ...........

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Do I sense a bit of sour grapes here?

If you had read the thread from the start you would have seen that I did touch on this. I am happy that I was fortunate to live in Scotland at a time when we had a system in place where, because of my age, I did qualify for free replacement CH when my existing system was condemned. ie not suitable for repair.

Initially I was informed that it would take about 4 months but when I got an actual date, it was going to take 8 months. When I queried this and submitted addtional medical evidence on behalf of my wife, it was prioritised and has taken just over 4 months.

So just to confirm. We wish we didn't have to do without heating and hot water over Christmas, New Year and the cold period. We did because we qualified. I am very happy about that as personal finance does come into it.

Bill

Reply to
Bill

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