Visit to Axminster Power Tools Show last weekend

[Andy Hall]

... and you can double the value by filling it with petrol....

[Tony Bryer]

And is less likely to be stolen while you're about your business.

[Doctor Drivel]

The 2005 Top Gear user survey of 76,000 [people put the Skoda near the top with 159 cars surveyed.

[Grunff]

Why would I give a shit what the brainwashed masses think? I'm quite capable of driving a variety of cars, and making up my own mind about what I like and don't like.

[Doctor Drivel]

It was a detailed survey of what the owners thought of these cars. The bottom ten was full of French cars.

A survey of 76,000 people is significant.

[Grunff]

Exactly, what they /thought/. Totally subjective, and largely driven by media-derived image.

There is nothing more stupid than groups of people. Gather together the opinions of thousands of people and all you will have is noise.

[Chris Bacon]

You don't have to, but it is a fact that based on reliability Skoda score better than BMW.

other references are there for you to read.

Fine - but it's not what J. Cartmell was referring to, is it.

[John Cartmell]

Anyone with a BMW like to say how much they have spent over how long on repairs excluding tyres and exhaust - and how often the car has let them down?

Of course it all depends on what you want. Carrying a multitude of allsorts in a low cost vehicle from A to B, parking easily and not being let down by the vehicle seems to be a reasonable requirement. Yours may differ.

[Doctor Drivel]

Nope. They listed problems, breakdowns, and what types, dealer service, what it's like to live with, economy, etc, etc.

Goggle Top Gear and Survey and it's all there and then you can stop making a prat of yourself.

[Doctor Drivel]

What you like is a "perceived" image that brands are supposed to give. The label has to right in your eyes. The Audi is basically the Skoda underneath, but people think the Audi has image and the Skoda not, so they convince themselves that the Skoda is poor quality. Buying off the shelf image - so you think. Your type think BMW is image, while people with class, like myself, do not. You can't buy class. Like me you just have it.

[Chris Bacon]

No I don't. Please address your remarks to the right person.

[Grunff]

Let's take the 528. One wheel bearing, the part cost £25 and took half an hour to fit. That's it.

The 325, which I've had for 8 years, has needed even less - I can't actually recall a single repair I've had to do on it.

Neither car has ever let me down.

But of course the above is meaningless - a sample of two cars means nothing.

[Grunff]

The TG surveys are purely subjective. People's perceptions of the quality of their cars contribute far more than real life reliability.

[Doctor Drivel]

They listed problems, breakdowns, etc. BMW came nowhere.

[Doctor Drivel]

Exactly. 76,000 can't all be wrong.

[Chris Bacon]

TG is pants anyway. I was referring to other information showing Skoda to be more reliable than BMW, like that at:

'm not saying that I prefer Skoda *or* BMW cars, incidentally.

[John Cartmell]

Not quite true. Lots of people answering a survey individually is different from getting answers from lots of people in a group. You could suggest that they would individually be biased by the Top Gear programme and team ...

.. towards Skoda?!

[John Cartmell]

So did you check the reliability rating from the Insurance Companiy's figures?

[Andy Dingley]

Who is ever going to be choosing _between_ a Skoda and a BMW anyway ? (Now if we were talking _Tatras_...)

What is clear though is that Skoda used to make unfashionable rear-engined cars with the charm of a tractor, the simple reliability of a wheelbarrow and an enviable record of success in the RAC Rally for years. You might not _like_ the things, but you'll not meet a rally driver who laughs at Skodas - they've been beaten by too many of them.

These days the make things that are like small Volkswagens or "family cars". As boring as a semi in Milton Keynes, but they do the job and the factory is clearly good at making them. As an engineer I'm still tempted to move the the Czech Republic - a country that still has some respect for maunfacturing, engineering and "doing it right".

As to the French, then they're just making really rubbish small cars these days, and have done since the abysmal Citroen AX. Even my _parents_ (who have no taste in anything) finally realised their ZX was an appalling turkey with the build quality of an Allegro, then swapped it for a Honda Civic (boring little pod-car, but it works).

[Holly, in France]

Interesting one for us, this, thanks Andy. Just had a look at the website. It does look expensive at 700GBP, and it's hard to tell from the pictures (system here is too slow for videos etc), but it doesn't look very robust for regular(ish) professional use. And it would need to be for that price. We could make quite alot of use of something like that instead of an angle grinder and the price would be OK if it was going to last. Also what about life/replacement of blades? I've emailed them for more details/stockists, but having seen the thing have you any more thoughts on this please?

Shame this thread has gone off on a tangent towards BMW/Skoda :-)

-- Holly, in France Holiday Home in Dordogne