victorian/edwardian houses or new houses?

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No. Moss is a bryophyte, a true plant. Lichen is a symbiotic union of an alga and a fungus - an unlikely combination as algae are plants and fungi are in a completely separate order.
I must say that I haven't noticed any evidence of lichens being any less common than they were, and I've been interested in them since the early 'fifties.

Mosses require some sort of soil to start with, and moisture with it. Some mosses can dry out for long periods and be revitalised by a shower of rain, and it is these which you'll find on roofs.
very often their shrinking in dry periods dislodges them, and they can then colonise damper areas, either in the gutter or on the ground.
--
Rusty
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Kingdom, actually.
How unlikely would you consider mitochondria and chloroplasts?

I think that it depends where you are. I have heard that they have gone down badly in what were rural areas but now are not, like the Peak District.
Regards, Nick Maclaren.
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from snipped-for-privacy@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

Order, according to my reading, but I'd go for kingdom if given the choice, as it seems more appropriate.

In lichens? Logically, I'd consider chloroplasts and mitochondria universal, since they are both present in the green and blue-green algae which make up part of a lichen. The algae in lichens can be cultivated separately, but AFAIK the fungal element will germinate but not continue developing to maturity. I presume that mitochondrial DNA is present in fungi, but chloroplasts are not, hence the value to the fungus of the symbiotic arrangement.

While I have stopped many times in the Peak District, I've never done so with lichens in mind. Radio waves, yes.
I hadn't noticed the areas I've stopped in to be even remotely urbanised.
--
Rusty
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I agree.

That's not true.

No.
No.
Mary
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of
atmospheric
hope
on
Andy, Jaques, Mary, Nick,
many thanks - moss and lichen stuff was interesting.
I didn't quite expect the thread to wander off onto heated discussion about pollution and vehicle motive power, but you never can tell with usenet (to paraphrase Winnie the Poo). Sorry about that!
-- Richard Sampson
email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
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"Bother!" Said Pooh, regarding his emissions.
--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
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writes

If there weren't any SWMBO's there wouldn't be a 'new house premium', since we are far more sensible, aren't we :-)

--
Andrew

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Andrew wrote:

They should be, more or less. Its definitely possible.
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Like I said, if the previous owner has completed all the major maintenance requirements, then there is little for the new owner to do.
Obviously this excludes minor routine work like clean gutters etc, and maintenance that is preformed on any house new or old that can be left out of the equation.
There are so many poorly maintained houses for a number of reasons. One is that home owners will not think twice about spending 500 - 1000 on a car service but will not dream of paying someone the same amount to maintain their home.
Another is the inability to realise the maintenance requirements of their property, or just general apathy. Reluctance to find a reliable trades person or lack of trust due to media reporting is another.
dg

could
so
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all snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk (mark al) wrote:

Rather than restrict to old/new, consider other, potentially more important things.
1 Location. Buy a house in a nice area. An area you like with amenaties nearby that you will use. You cannot move a house.
2 Land. Make sure the plot of land is big enough. If it is too small there is nothing much you can do about it. Having a dedicated parking space, garage or car port (or at least room for one) can be important.
3 Size. You can do some changes in a house, you can knock walls down and even build extensions (if you have land available) but small rooms and not enough rooms are difficult to fix.
4 Area. Look carefully at the surrounding area. Especially close to the house. Avoid areas where something commercial can be built next door, or mobile phone mast accross the road, or road widening removes front garden etc etc.
All the above things are ones you can do nothing about after you have bought. No amount of DIY or builders can fix them.
Richard
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(mark al) wrote:> >im just about to buy my first house and would like opinions, advice etc

A few notes:
Some Victorian houses are prone to structural problems. The ones remaining today are basically the ones that didnt fall down or get demolished. Many have gone. If buying this old I would want to know what the structure is about. Some are good, with acceptable foundations and brickwork repointed and in one piece.
OTOH some are not. I've seen houses with foundations 3 bricks deep, with 4" walls holding up 2 stories, structural cracks, top row wall bricks that you could literally just pick up with your hand, or walls bulging all over the place. If you buy old, know what youre buying.
With new builds of course there are some rejects as well there. There are some houses with a litany of dreadful bodges: either avoid them or pay way less and fix it all.
Finally, surveys - ruddy useless. Better to learn the basics of the subject. Well, now you know what to look out for. There was a thread several months ago on what to look for when buying, very thorough too.
Regards, NT
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On 7 Jan 2004 09:51:09 -0800, all snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk (mark al) wrote:

Having been in far too many 'estate' type houses (friends etc) we'd personally never buy a new-ish house because the rooms are too small or impractical and if you're downstairs you can hear someone fart upstairs. My sister's house is about 20 years old and it's an awful plasterboard/chipboard job, even into the garage. When someone's in the main bedroom they sound like they're about to come through the floor!
We're currently in a house built in 1886, and the only thing I don't like about it is the floors on the top floor all have a little too much spring for my liking. Oh, and the whole building shakes when trucks thunder past on the main road and hit the pothole convieniently outside the front gate.
This one is definitely not a first time buyer's house unless you're either very practical or have a lot of spare cash - when we bought it it had dry rot, wet rot, weevil infestation, rising damp (in only 1 room!), no heating, no electric or lights on the top floor and considerable water damage from an obvious constantly leaky roof including grass growing above the bathroom ceiling!
The only non-loadbearing wall had been built AFTER the ground floor floor had been installed and it wasn't supported by anything, so years of water penetration at the front of the house had caused the nails and wood holding it to the bricks to rot and its own weight made it sag and buckle the living room and hall floors.
The first building inspector nearly shat when he saw it :)
And we still bought it, purely because it had massive amounts of character and space, and none of the damage was irrepairable over time.
Things that still need doing: repair all sash windows and replace shitty plastic ones with proper sashes. Fix the aforementioned wall properly (it's shored up on bricks now). Repair rest of water damage. Finish renovating the dining room when it's not full of old computers. Hope the ceiling doesn't come down! Repair all rotten wood in the porch. Finish summerhouse that had been allowed to almost completely rot away. Fit proper window in the room I'm in now. Renovate and probably replaster top floor landing, and repair cracks caused by heating the house properly for the first time. Rewire ground floor so everything isn't surface mounted.
Of course, not all Victorian houses have suffered this sort of neglect, but if all of the above doesn't put you off go Victorian. Apart from anything else this place is now worth 4 times what we paid for it :oD My sister's isn't. -- cheers,
witchy/binarydinosaurs
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wrote:

Sounds very similar to our 1903 house. Only ground and first floor, but on a main road. Originally detached, but 'terraced' either side in the 1930s.

Similar things here!

Exactly.
Living room in our case! Old computers too....

Living room ceiling did that before Christmas.

Whole-house rewire nearly finished...!

Same here. My sister-in-law has a habit of losing money on houses, but this place too is worth about 4 x what we paid.
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
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Bummer! Thinking about it we're not on a full-blown main road 'cos we don't get the pantechnicons and big buses......gawds knows what the house would do if we did!

I just wish I had the Missus' foresight - she can see the place finished and I can't :)

as bad as this?
http://vorbis.demon.co.uk/kinnell/DSCF1972.jpg
http://vorbis.demon.co.uk/kinnell/DSCF1974.jpg
Note: it's currently MUCH worse than that now.....those were taken a year ago.

Eep! Caused by what?
-- cheers,
witchy/binarydinosaurs
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wrote:

Well, at its peak it had 43 machines in it. About 20 server towers, the rest desktops. 17 monitors, 47 spare hard drives, 15 plastic boxes of spare cards and other bits, 4 token ring MAUs, three 24 port hubs, 28 keyboards, 50 or so mice, about 60 diskette drives, and I forget the rest (but much more).....!
I sold/chucked/gave away some of it and the rest is in a new shed. Apart from the 12 or so machines in temporary or permanent use.

It's a large room and this is the only section that hadn't been boarded (original L&P). Right underneath where the kids constantly jump, also there was a loose end of an old iron gas pipe lying on the top of the laths...other end in a T joint I couldn't undo. Lifted some more boards and sawed it off, and ceiling fell three days later, so who knows?
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
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I've got a similar problem in the storage/dining room. It used to be divided in 2 by a brick wall that wasn't really tied into either side wall, and when the builders got to the ceiling they just stopped and used cornicing to hide the fact.....grr....when I took the wall down during renovation (this was the weevil/damp room) I could see how bad the ceiling now was so it's temporarily supported by battens screwed to the joists. It's right below our little one's bedroom......much jumping occurs as you can expect! Fortunately in the not too distant future I'll be under the boards in that room so hopefully I'll be able to repair from the back using wet plaster...... -- cheers,
witchy/binarydinosaurs
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IMM wrote:

Lots of P&L is still about today & is OK. Lots of plasterboard, an old invention, is too. Lots of plasterboard collapses in only 30-40 years. What's your point?

What? In what way?

How is modern Spanish slate superior, or even equal, to the Welsh slate used in the past for roofing?
If you can sensibly answer the above, I will be very surprised.
J.B.
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Jerry Built wrote:

Oh he can answer all right, it may not be true, it may not be grammatical, it may not even be comprehensible, but answer he will :-)

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Welsh is best.
--
--

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N. Thornton wrote:

Mmm. Bits of my old cedar shingled roof appeared to consist of
- and old broom handle nailed and lashed to a rotted bit of - pine tree sawn into quarters. Quite a bit of this and - an actual branch from an oak tree. - and lots of other wobbly bits of timber. Not a sqare sawn bit in the place except where some 'modern' bodging had been done with some 4x2.
In s. africa where thatch is often used and wood is scarce they tend to use round poles tapering from 4" diameter and finishing at ofetn little more than 2" for a 'rondavel"
They stay up and support the thatch just fine :-)
I am not decryng building regs, merely pointin out
that rooves are there to keep the rain off: A large tent does no better.
The timbers used are really all about the weight of the cladding. In my case the imminent demise of the shingles was, with the leaking of a tiled section and the impossibility of re-roofing without using heavier rafters, that meant totally popping what they rested on etc etc, that led me to fianally pull it down.
However, up till then it had been totally fine :-)

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