Velkess Energy Storage

tell that to the chinese, who lost about 200,000 lives..when a series of dams burst.

a pumped storage facility is a teeny little thing and stores very little energy typically.

If you actually examine the effects of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, you will find that despite no especial efforts being made to clean them up., they are now perfectly safe to live in, and even at the time, there were no significant casualties from fall-out. The deaths were all due to massive radiation recieved close up.

IIRC about 50,000 died from blast or massive radiation IMMEDIATELY from the actual explosion. a few hundred died later from the same effects. almost no statistically significant effects are to be found from those who survived - say - a year and died later ..from natural causes.

Chernobyl spread FAR more radioactive crap around. again, bar the 3000 people who got thyroid cancer, (and few if any, died) and the 78 people who died as a result of firefighting (and who received massive doses or radiation) again, no one died from 'fallout'.

It is important not to confuse cold war and green propaganda, with facts.

The facts are that nuclear fallout is not especially harmful, and we treat it with caution because we can. Its far more dangerous to have radiotherapy for cancer where you will receive far higher doses.

That was not, however, my point. My point was that we, as a nation, use a stupendous amount of energy to live as we do, and that energy if stored in a form where it can be rapidly released is far far more dangerous than most people suppose.

and nuclear fuel which is only enriched enough to be able to JUST sustain a chain reaction, when arranged physically in a very precise and exact way, is one of the safest ways to do that.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher
Loading thread data ...

"The (Banqiao) dam failures killed an estimated 171,000 people;^ 11 million people lost their homes. It also caused the sudden loss of 18 GW of power^, the equivalent of roughly 9 very large modern coal-fired power stations or about 20 nuclear reactors,"

formatting link

Hiroshima and Nagasaki death rates are hard to pin down, and subject to massively biassed reporting.

I ,e that the conclusion that 'by 2012, 97% of all the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki had died' !!!! :-0)

Radiation it seems is no guarantor of immortality. :-)

But at the time a reasonable middle estimate is in the tens of thousands, but less than hundreds of thousands at each city.

a 5 meter tsunami killed nearly 20,000 people in japan..you may remember it. now think about a 50 meter wall of water crashing down a narrow populated valley..

-- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc?-ra-cy) ? a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

You really don't want to be around when a spinny thing loses its bearings...

formatting link

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Oh they can, as can any high pressure hot water/steam plant. You lose the pressure and it will rapidly turn to gas and go bang.

Reply to
dennis

If you are a regular watcher of mythbusters and similar programmes, you will will be aware that explosive power alone is not what kills people. Yes at close range you may get literally blown apart, but the far greater damage is shrapnel. with which military explosives are deliberately augmented. A rifle is a carefully designed shrapnel generator, with a kill range of up to several MILES. For very low energy. Ther ws one case in te USA where a wmoin was killed several miles way from where a rather short wife, was ainomg UPWARSD at water melon targets with her husbands 45, and the bullet flew several city blocks before killing the victim.

A bullet that would penetrate at best a few inches of soil wood or straw

A flywheel is the perfect shrapnel generator.

And dont stop to consider ice thrown off a wind turbine blade too long. A ballistics friend estimated 'lethal up to about 200 yards'

A girl I once knew woke up in hospital with concussions and a manufactured skull. The last thing she remembered was a lorry coming towards her. Police found a lump of broken brake drum inside the wreck of her car.. at only a few mph, that nearly killed her, and whe was lucky to escape the minor wreck that happened after she was knocked out..

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Thats why I said 'tankfuls of petrol', not 'tanks, full of petrol'. a split tank of hyrdocarbon fuel will create a fuel air bomb.

formatting link

The lead acid battery I personally explode was probably a hydrogen explosion due to overcharging, but it split the casing throwing sharp lumps of plastic all over the factory floor and spilled its acid guts everywhere. It was a forklift starter battery being charged overnight.

But I agree that in general batteries are discharge limited by internal resistance, so they just get hot and then explode on account of that - something I have seen happen with lithium cells quite a few times.

But then they are pissy little energy stores.

Gas is even more fun

I'd rather have 5000 tonnes of nuclear waste next door to me than one of these..

formatting link

or 'the biggest chemical explosion ever' 500 tonnes of rocket fuel'

formatting link

most casualtues from flying glass. well away from the blast

3.2 on the Richter scale...

So energy storage is ..interesting..

If you are fan of hydro power, this one killed nearly the same number of people as chernobyl.

You will probably never have heard of it. How odd is that?

The last clip is a handy little device, ideal for taking out an offshore wind farm

formatting link

(ignore the footage in the middle, its clearly from an entirely different test spliced in for dramatic effect).

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

True

but AFAICT that was not a spinny thing losing its bearings.

'killed more trout, than Chernobyl' would be nice strap-line

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Indeed - I am very happy with the idea that a failing flywheel can be extremely dangerous. But differently dangerous to a dynamite explosion. Hence the conversion from standard units into sticks of dynamite is not really very helpful or illuminating.

Shrapnel - porter/ticket collector at Winchester got a nasty leg wound when a passing train kicked up a pandrol clip from the track. For the life of me, I cannot understand how it could have travelled from the track to where he was standing when hit. There appeared to be at least the edge-of-platform wall in the way!

Reply to
polygonum

I think your friend was being cautious - it could be much worse.

Imagine that a lump of ice comes off a blade, and that it's going at

200MPH (tip speed - source: Wikipedia). That's 90 m/s. At a 45-degree launch angle it'll fly for about 12 seconds and, neglecting air, travel 700 metres.

Andy

Reply to
Andy Champ

Do they mention the self-discharge rate? I'd expect it to have run out,( if built as shown on the page) of energy within a few minutes at the most due to air friction and other losses, as against a lead acid battery, which takes months to flatten itself. It may come in handy for absorbing motor start surges, if you can afford to have it running "just in case".

Reply to
John Williamson

Did you miss the bit about the enclosure being evacuated?

Reply to
polygonum

Obviously, though it'll still probably be flat within a day or so. Was it in the video? I'm away from home at the moment, and I can't afford video on 3G in this country.

Reply to
John Williamson

I wonder if you built the Severn Barrage if it could be used additionally for pumped storage?

Reply to
harry

I've seen a lead acid battery explode. It was on charge and someone disconnected it. The spark exploded hydrogen gas. The case was split and acid sprayed everywhere. Truck engine starter battery.

Reply to
harry

Killed 70 people. Turbine went off-balance due to combination of poor maintenance and being operated in a power output range which was not correct for the water level head at the time, and vibration destroyed top bearing mounting, promptly followed by most of the other turbines and the building.

This was after years of poor maintenance, and the turbine was 2 months short of its 30 year design life (not that it was about to be replaced).

There's loads on this incident in Wikipedia.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Dennis: tell the nurses that this time they have overdone the meds, and you are dribbling again.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

# we couldn't make it that far. Using the same 200mph.

I'll have to recheck the calcs.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

almost exactly the same as I saw. Cept it was a forklift truck.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Especially if it were 5000 metres high.

Reply to
polygonum

Both of these were small hydrogen explosions - nowhere near all the stored energy of the battery. This flywheel could easily dump the lot, in very short order..

Andy

Reply to
Andy Champ

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.