Various kitchen electric questions

[jon]

Doing various things in the kitchen and have a couple of questions.

1) I've channelled out the plaster so as to embed the 6mm oven cable, but I can't fix the cable clips to the wall as the bricks and the mortar are too hard. The nails on the clips are quite thick masonary but after a few hard bangs (no I'm not hitting and damaging the cable) they bend . Are there any other types of cable clips I can use, or is it ok just to cover it in plaster without any clips.

2) I'm installing in a new hob and single oven. There are no technical installation instructions for the hob. The hob has a total rating of 5.7kw so that is being connected to the dedicated cooker run (6mm) via a 45A dp cooker switch, which wall be in plain view about 1 foot to the left of the hob. Connection to the cooker from the 45A is straightforward, 6mm cable, cable restraint and insulated ring cable connectors.

The single oven (energy eff A) only has a rating of 0.75kw, and it says to use 2.5mm via a 20A dp also connected to the cooker run, I will be taking a spur from the 45A dp switch. Any way the question is, the instructions for the oven says I can either locate the 20A dp switch in view, or behind the single built oven. I was just wondering if the this was safe, in as much as if you need to isolate the oven you first have to pull it out ( or alternatively isolate at the CU).

yes this is my own kitchen, and yes I know about Part P (boo hiss).

TIA

jon

[Dave Plowman (News)]

There used to be wall plugs designed to take the clip nails for this sort of situation, but I've not seen them around recently and Tower don't seem to list them. But you don't actually need clips except to hold the cable while it's plastered over.

If it really is only 0.75kw (3 amps) I'd be inclined to feed it off the ring using a plug and socket. Makes for easier servicing. Indeed many single ovens come with a 13 amp lead and plug. But I'd guess you've misread the instructions - a 0.75 kw oven would take a very long time to heat up. Does it also have a grill?

[tinnews]

Yes, that's OK, the only issue is getting the cable to stay in place while the plaster dries over it.

That's an incredibly low rating for an oven.

I wouyld have thought there's a requirement to be able to isolate the oven easily. Can you not use the hob cooker switch to isolate the oven as well? A 45 amp switch is quite enough to handle both.

[Lobster]

The easy way round this is to position the switch behind an adjacent kitchen unit; cut a hand-sized hole in the back panel, so you can get your mitt through to switch off / change fuses. If the built-in oven has a 13A plug on the end of its flex (most do) you can simply put a DP switched socket behind the adjacent unit and run the flex through from behind the back panel (with a big enough hole to pass the plug through from the oven housing unit).

David

[meow2222]

If the OP specifically wants to use clips, which are not a requirement, an sds drill will make holes in just about anything quickly, tap wooden dowel into the hole, then you can nail in.

A method I used long ago was

1. tape across the channel at intervals. You'll find bits of the cable are now in the right place, though much of it isnt
2. Put dobs of filler at the sides of the bits of cable that are in the right place
3. When dried, remove tape and press the rest of the cable down. Now its ready for plastering.

NT

PS nailing through the middle of the cable is frowned on these days :)

[Stuart]

It's a case of using what you can get to stay in place while the plaster sets . small pieces of wood sometimes does .Put small amounts of plaster in first then when it has hardened plaster the chase properly .

[Christian McArdle]

You can get plugs that take a nail. You can just cover it in plaster, if you are physcially able to do so.

One alternative that I've used is to take a small masonry bit (i.e. 2mm or so) and predrill for the nail. Experiment with different sizes and depths to see what works.

Christian.

[Fash]

Tower still make pin plugs. Part no PP51. These are 5mm wall plugs that you then hammer the clip into. It's best to use Tower clips as the nail sizes vary by manufacturer. You can either ring Tower to find your nearest stockist or you can (I know because I've tried) persuade City Electrical Factors (and probably others) to get them in.

They are fantastic. I have a mixture of lime mortar (much too soft to take a clip) handmade brick (again too soft) and stone (far too hard) and they are the only way to get a clip to stay in. There is a wonderful feeling of security as you nail the clip in as they go home beautifully and are really secure.

I've started using them everywhere as the hassle of drilling a 20x5mm hole is nothing compared to the usual torture of trying to get clips to hold, watching them fall out, cracking the bricks etc.

BUY SOME!

Fash

[dcbwhaley]

Didn't know about those. I have been in the habit of replacing the nails in the clips with screws.

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:28:48 GMT someone who may be "jon" wrote this:-

A very low powered oven.

A spur of what size cable, from which side of the switch? How do you intend to protect the 2.5mm cable?

There is no great need for separate switching of the oven and hob. I would take a spur from a convenient place on the output side of the

45A switch, which may well be a cooker connection unit somewhere, and run the same size cable a short distance from there to a fused connection unit (in a reasonably accessible place). From there |I would run a suitable cable to the oven, perhaps via a connection unit.

[Andy Burns]

No need for persuasion, B&Q stock them

[Phil L]

Use normal clips but use a plasterboard screw into a predrilled hole and plastic plug. (PB screws are thinner and threaded the whole of the length)

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I looked for them on the Tower site and that part number doesn't turn up anything. Closest would be their white ones (in the standard colour range) which uses a 5mm drill, takes screws 4-8 and has a part nunber 51AP0

The old pin plugs I still have a supply of are pink - but not got the box anymore for a part number.