I'm wondering if it's possible to use wireless communications to stream audio for a small amateur live gig. The idea is to use powered speakers with wireless links to avoid loads of snaking cables.
There are lots of "live streaming wireless" solutions around, but most of these are for home audio where the latency isn't an issue. Whereas with a live event, it's important - 100ms delay would drive the musicians crazy.
From a DIY perspecitive, I'm thinking about things like:
Laptops using 802.11 WiFi and TCP/IP. Would this be a non-starter latency-wise? Are there any applications that would support it? Has anyone ever tried this?
Ditto using bluetooth. Possibly better latency but lower range.
Dedicated wireless audio chipsets like Texas Instuments PurePath. Would need some electgronics fabrication, but looks just about within the scope of DIY to me.
I'm comfortable with networking, programming and simple electronics.
Anything which uses any form of digital technology will introduce a delay. But then again, the sounds they hear coming back from the speakers will be delayed anyway.
I'd personally look at adapting a wireless in ear monitoring setup, which should be easy enough to hire - or fairly cheap to buy, as they are produced in quantity. Usually stereo too. To improve the range, simply use better aerials.
Yes.,. I think you may have a real problem with latency. In theory the new Opus codec can do very short delays but it might be too long for live work . Also consider any packet loss having short interrupts and dropouts might be a bit of a bummer..
We have used the BARIX Instreamer and Exstreamer units for studio to transmitter links in Broadcast but have been very hard pressed to get the latency and dropout good enough for live radio monitoring thats where you listen to the radio off air over your phones.
That was using linear PCM which has a low processing time but is very demanding on the radio link whereas MP3 etc are less demanding but take longer to code decode..
I know our local community station uses a very simple prog called "butt" which does work well but that I think needs some sort of server?? gubbins at the other end but I don't think the delays that short either..
And latency will I except be the real problem you'll face...
Indeed you can use that but you'll need the right equipment's. A simple microphone link on say 175.0 odd MHz might just do it albeit Mono, and there are other frequencies around which will work better but unless you have someone around who knows a lot re wideband modulation and has the test equipment etc to go with it then for most DIY work you'll be in the dark .. as it might be;!..
Have a look around on the JFMG site you can get some idea of what frequency bands etc are available and the licensing costs..
I needed to arrange a live audio and video feed from an event in one church, and transmit it to another across the road (to provide overspill seating for those that would not fit in the first). So came up with the following hack gash solution...
The total distance between buildings was probably only 60' or so, but there was no ready route to cable it, which meant either WiFi or a round trip through both buildings broadband connections. I used a couple of WAPs with high gain antennae for the "over the road bit", and then a combination of CAT5 and Home Plug to get through the buildings and to an upstairs window. A locked off camera provided the video feed, and an output from the PA mixer the audio. Fed the video into a USB digitizer on a PC and the audio into the front panel input on a soundblaster audigy. Processed the video in real time and made it available as a stream. That was then played back via VLC media player at the remote end.
The result once thrown up on a video projector and into the remote PA system worked ok, but the delay of several seconds would make it a complete non starter for your application. Fortunately it did not matter in this case since took tens of seconds to walk from one building to the other, so it did not matter that the remote site was a few seconds behind the live event.
Doing audio only you could probably get significantly less delay, but by the time you have a bit of precessing, transit delay and buffering the best you are likely to do is VoIP / Mobile phone style delays of high tens of ms. While tolerable in two ways comms situations, it would be enough to add an unpleasant echo to the sound if you were able to hear source and destination concurrently.
One route that might be worth investigating would be using Audio over Ethernet. That skips the bulk of the codec stage, avoids compression, and does not use IP protocol framing. Its can run with sub 10ms delays. You would need to use a pair of wireless ethernet bridges to do a wireless hop. These add relatively little delay (I have used a pair to bridge a lan across a road from one office to another, and that carried to VoIP phone links from the PABX in the main office)
I've got one of those video sender thingies - which broadcast on the normal analogue UHF band. It worked around the house pretty well - so I'd say 60 ft line of sight would be easy. Especially with a decent receiver aerial. Of course it would need an analogue receiver.
How do the speakers get power? Snaking mains cable? Make up looms so you only have one "cable" to each speaker.
Lot's of expeience. Cables work and if they don't get the soldering iron out and fix 'em. Or as cable is cheap you have a few spare lengths to swap on the odd occasion one fails.
Off the shelf kit in Ch70, "license free" so a free for all but as this stuff is low power in most single venue locations you won't have a problem. Some care will be required to get the levels in/out right, a "wireless microphone" Tx will expect mic level and the Rx may well output mic level (KISS it's a "microphone" so it's microphone level innit). Speakers would require line level. There may also be issues with added noise. The amp volume control will be on the speakers to have the speakers loud enough for the gig they might need to be turned up thus bringing up the noise... Not easy to adjust the amp volume controls between the "warm up" musak and gig if they are on the speakers.
That sounds like a reasonable bet. Persoanlly, I'd try to avoid the A-D and D-A conversion (and then streaming the results) as it will introduce delay.
If it's at all possible, just use cables. It's simpler and more reliable. If you must go wireless, use something that will transmit the analogue signal direct.
No delay on it - or if there was not obvious. I used it to feed a portable monitor and headphones on location for drama filming. it would have been very obvious if there was a noticeable delay in the sound.
As I said and have been ignored use in ear monitoring sets. They would be hopeless if they did introduce a delay as they are designed to be worn by musicians on stage. One transmitter and as many receivers as you need. Designed to drive headphones, so plenty to drive an amp input. Battery life should be long enough for any gig. Simples. ;-)
Trantec would be a good place to start for reasonable value.
Remember years ago working on a Magpie (TV kid's prog)
Common first thing in the morning to pre-record an insert outside in the car park etc - anywhere a camera cable would reach to. This one no different - cameras on top of the canteen roof. To shoot a powered hang glider flying up the river. Someone had been told about this before as they had long lenses on loan from OBs.
'SOUND' 'We'd like to talk to the pilot while in flight' 'Not a problem, is it?'
Well it wouldn't have been if we'd known and borrowed some gear for the purpose from OBs...
Used two Micron radio mics with battery receivers. One as a straight mic, the other to feed a deaf aid in the pilot's ear so he could talk to the presenter. And it actually worked out of range of the camera.
Not quite sure which bit you are commenting on... the main point I was relaying from my experience is that going through the A to D thence network protocols etc will add too much latency for what the OP wanted to do.
I have no great experience of AoE kit, but understand that its designed to work for live audio. Hence I was adding a note that my experience with layer 2 wireless bridges is such that you *might* still get close enough to real time performance to these to be useful with AoE kit.
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