Having moved to a new computer, I've finally decided to bite the bullet and get shot of Outlook Express as a newsreader - and have opted for Thunderbird, largely because I'm using Firefox as a browser, and it's from the same stable - and free!
Anyone know whether there's an Idiot's guide anywhere, telling ex-OE users how to use Thunderbird for newsgroup access? There doesn't seem to be any targetted help - the Help menu takes you to a website which seems mainly geared towards use as an email client.
Specifically, I need to know:
- How to mark interesting threads so that they show up in red
- How to automatically treat all messages as "read" when exiting a group
- How to set the View options so that only new messages (since the last time I read a group) are displayed
You can manually tag (and colour) a post with a tap of the numbers 1 to
You can add a star to a message with S. You can set a thread to "watched" with a w. Watching is quite handy because you can easily filter on it later.
(these are all on the message menu as well)
Right click - Mark as all read
View | Threads | unread
Filters are worth using as well. You can make life greatly easier. So for example I have a filter that recognised my posts and colours them green, and sets the watch flag on the thread they appear in. That way I can set View | Threads | Watched with unread - and see just the threads I have participated in that have new messages.
You can obviously colour other posters as you see fit. I have one that sets dribble to "read" on arrival - since reading one post is much like any of the others!
(generally, anything you can do manually can also be done with a filter)
Kill a thread with K (it will be marked at the time, and will have vanished next time you return to the group). Kill a sub thread with shift K.
Press '1' when a message has focus to tag it as important, that single message will show in red, press 'W' to watch a thread.
No option for that, try the "Mark All Read Button" add-on
Right click your toolbar, customise, drag the 'mail views' widget onto some empty space in the toolbar, then you can easily switch filters for 'all, 'unread' and custom filters you create yourself such as 'replied to', 'last 24hours' etc
In news: snipped-for-privacy@mid.individual.net, Roger Mills typed on Sat, 22 May 2010 15:55:47 +0100:
Hello Roger! I have been using Thunderbird for many years and I still like Outlook Express v6 with OE-QuoteFix far better. At least for newsgroups. And no newsreader except OE has the "Show Replies to my Messages" (CTRL-H) view. Which IMHO makes everything else so bad as a newsreader. As I think this should be a feature on all newsreaders. But I guess the other programmers just don't get it.
Thunderbird doesn't call them Watched threads like OE does. But you can mark them with a Star. Another option is by marking them with a flag (I think there are 5 different default type of flags). And flags you can change the color of the header. Kind of like OE.
I am not sure if you can make a newsgroup as read when you exit. I know you can mark it as read manually. And I remember you should be able to show only the unread messages under TB. Btw, TB has been released to different versions. I believe the popular ones are v1.5, v2.0, and v3.0. And depending on which one you are using, the answers maybe different. I actually like 2.0 the best, but I also like 1.5 too.
I think this newsgroup maybe able to help you for the questions we here can't give you.
The programmers seem to "get it" just fine. However by making some of the filtering tools a little more flexible, they are perhaps not quite as simple. However they give far greater scope if you spend a little time learning what they can do.
So, using the technique I described elsewhere (watching threads to which you post, and then restricting the view to watched threads) you get get pretty much the functionality you desire. Hitting "n" (next) will take you to each unread new post in a thread you have either started or replied to.
Or mark it as watched with a w
You can add additional flags if you want.
There are two stable releases generally 2.0.x.x and 3.0.x, three has some additional group options like killing a sub thread and better searching (if you let it index anyway). 2 is a tad faster.
Yes well I use TB 1.5, 2.0, and v3 and use the filtering tools. Even when you are a pro at using them. None of them work as nice as OE "Show Replies to my Messages" (CTRL-H) view. Sad isn't it?
That is another stupid thing from TB. The key for the next unread should be "u" and not "n". And "n" should be for the next message, read or not. And sometimes I read with a mouse alone. And adding back, forward, next unread, and previous unread on the toolbar isn't available for all version of TB either. How dumb can you get?
The older versions didn't call them watched. I think 3.0 now does. It takes Mozilla many years to make one simple change to a very old mistake. But then again Mozilla programmers love to show off how inferior their programming abilities are. They believe in making things as difficult as possible.
Sun is another company who likes to makes things slow, bloated, and very difficult to use as well. And Microsoft is starting to do the same. I guess all of the great programmers at Microsoft have already retired. I guess nobody writes great software anymore.
V3 is the worse version of TB to date! Bloated and slow just like it's brother called Firefox. Must be the same dang programmers. Or at least party together or something. At least FF gets security updates. As they don't bother with TB.
I have used Forte Agent for many years now. Originally there was a stripped-down free version, but that soon changed so it has to be paid for. But I find it incredibly intuitive to use.
Recently I looked at Thunderbird as an alternative to upgrading to the latest version of Agent. I found it was clunky and difficult to understand. After about an hour I gave up and happily upgraded Agent to the current version.
While Agent must be paid for ($29.00, or slightly less than £20.00), there is a free 30 day trial so you can see if you like it. If you can manage with Thunderbird, that's fine, but if not, you might like to give Agent a try.
formatting link
the way, I use Agent only for news, but you can also configure it for email.
I used Agent about 12 years back - and it was good then too. I quite liked it. However as I use Linux it's a bit of a non starter (never have been arsed to fiddle with Wine).
Thunderbird isn't as good as the good bits of knode (filtering, highlighting) but it does mean one less program open (I use it for email too) and I like the fact it can open basic URLs too from USENET, and I do like the "ignore subthread" open. My killfile is set to ignore subthreads from those killed as that's usually where the flamewares spawn and stay burning...
I must get round to understanding plugin programming - there are a few things I'd like to tweak...
Watched threads with unread works nicely for me...
So change the default key bindings if it bothers you that much.
Dumb would be complaining that a feature you want is missing, when its been standard for ages, and the only reason you have not noticed is you are using an insecure, non supported, out of date version.
I bet OE 4 does not do everything that you want either, why not complain about that?
Watched threads have been about for ages...
Na, I think they just like to tease you.
Starting? They invented code bloat!
Most of MS's better products were not written by them anyway!
Depends on what you want I guess.
Yup, I mean TB 2 which is not even the current version has only had 24 point releases. Remember the last update for OE? (don't think MS ever got round to making it quote properly)
I am sure, but nothing as simple as CTRL-H does. I am sure a lab rat running through a maze that doesn't change to find food works nicely for them too. But humans are not lab rats and we have more important things to do to use our intelligence and time than running through mazes.
Use your head. Both new and next start with "n". That isn't good. One of them needs to be changed. And since unread next can be remembered easily with "u". The problem is solved. But morons at Mozilla can't be bothered with solutions. What is wrong with most programmers? They want to treat everybody as lab rats. I am sorry, but most people are smarter than that. Okay one or two are not, but that is another story.
Nope, "Show Replies to my Messages" (CTRL-H) view has been missing from Thunderbird since day one. Hopefully when TB v4 comes out they will finally get it. Well maybe it will take until TB v6 you think?
Before OE4 there was Microsoft Mail and News v1.0. And the only competitor was Netscape back then. And when IE4 / OE4 came out they buried Netscape into darkness. And if it wasn't for AOL buying them out, there won't be any Thunderbird or Firefox today. And Mozilla has it so easy with Thunderbird, as OE is no more. Yet they still can't match OE6 while it is sitting still. I can hire lab rats today and still beat Mozilla. That is really sad.
No it hasn't!
Treat smart people and newbies as lab rats, eh? I started as an electronic engineer back in the 70's. I only programmed too since there wasn't any programmers worth a darn back then. Well it wasn't their entire fault, since hardware was changing like crazy back then and you had to be an electronic engineer to keep up with it all. By the mid 80's hardware started to stabilize and there was programmers that started writing code better than I could. So I quit and stuck with electronic engineering.
Now all of these people are retiring and the ones replacing them are mostly clueless. The newer generation just doesn't get it. Don't expect people to act like lab rats. Doing so we only create less and less people using your product. And Netscape (aka Mozilla) are making the very same mistakes they did a decade ago. They just really don't get it!
Wishfully thinking. As MS-DOS v6 was only like 6MB in size. Windows 95 was only 25MB for a full install. The OS wasn't the big thing, but applications got bloated. I have some programs here right now that requires at least 1GB of RAM for itself. Heck Acronis True Image itself eats up like 170MB when it isn't even running.
Microsoft always had to fix that crap first. As those products were worthless as is. As if they were worth anything, they didn't need Microsoft to bale them out in the first place. Heck Apple would have been history today if Microsoft didn't bale them out too.
Great software like we used to have. I am not asking too much I don't think.
For starters, no versi "Mozilla Messaging's Thunderbird e-mail client, which relies on the Firefox rendering engine for JavaScript and other functionality, was not patched Tuesday. It remains at Version 2.0.0.18. Until Thunderbird catches up -- an update is expected in early January -- users can protect themselves against the related Firefox vulnerabilities by disabling JavaScript in the e-mail program."
It is very clear to me that Mozilla doesn't consider acThunderbird as a serious product. As they will get around to fixing it when they get around to it. Unfortunately they are always a day late and a dollar short. No news there. Netscape was exactly the same way. Thus some things never change at all.
It may not be perfect but I, for one, am glad that TB is freely available (as in speech), you're welcome to stick to your free OE (as in beer).
No wonder I avoid the big8 and alt groups these days and stick to a handful of uk groups; someone ungrateful sod like you with an exe to grind seems to pops whenever a message is xposted left of the pond ...
That certainly works - but it ain't automatic, it's manual! In OE, when you exit a group, all messages are *automatically* marked as read.
Thanks for the suggestion. I've actually opted for "View threads with unread"
- which is better than OE since it displays the whole of any thread which contains unread messages, allowing you to see more of the context.
[I've no idea why the text in the paragraph above is in two different colours!]
Thanks to all who have replied to my original questions - I think I'm getting there! I'm still surprised that there isn't any built-in help specifically for newsgroup use, or an online "Idiot's Guide". [At any rate, if there ARE such things, no-one has so far referenced them].
I've used Turnpike v 5.02 for years now and often wondered if there was anything better as a news reader and can't say I've come across anything better as yet;!.....
Tony, I agree. However, TP will not work 'out of the box' with Windows
7, so I'm reading this thread with interest. My machine is running XP with TP 6.06, but I suppose the time will come when a new PC will arrive with W7.
The comments regarding news are interesting, but how about groups, specifically Yahoo Groups. Will Thunderbird or Agent thread those like Usenet? That is a TP feature I could not live without.
Thinking aloud, I suppose there is nothing to stop me running two or three news readers simultaneously, just to see how each looks and performs? Presumably, each would fetch news independently of the others?
Oh I see! We Thunderbird users are not allowed to give our opinion when the likes of you are around. As we must be thankful and grateful for the tiny crumbs that Mozilla has given us.
You know, some companies actually do listen to their customers and improve their software. Some other companies doesn't care what their customers think. And they want you to feel grateful for the crumbs they hand out.
And I have no axe to grind either. I am just saying it as it is. If you have a problem with anything I said, feel free to correct me. So far though, you have not corrected me on one single thing yet. Why not? And if you don't have any evidence to the contrary, then what is the problem?
Thunderbird will thread Yahoo emails (I get individual emails of all posts for the groups I am interested in). Trouble is that so many people post in ways that mean they are not threaded even viewed within the group. Thins like starting a new topic by replying to an existing post and changing the subject. Or just posting a disconnected message without making any attempt to place it in a thread.
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