Using One Shot drain clearer in sinks

[F Murtz]

Sounds like rot to me ,if it were that violent it would not be sold for the purpose,there would be court cases every where.

[F Murtz]

There is more in that than meets the eye and must have been a number of not normal factors for that to have occurred.

[Chris Hogg]

LOL! You should try adding water to conc sulphuric acid some time! (Actually, don't).

You never bothered to read the MSDS, did you. If you did, which bit of 'reacts violently with water' don't you understand?

[Chris Hogg]

I have no doubt that the DM exaggerated and dramatised the story for commercial reasons. It's what they do.

I have no doubt that the reporter who covered the story is technically illiterate and wouldn't know acid from alkali. It's what they are.

But the basics of the story are clear. The man in the top flat used One Shot to clear a blockage in his drain. Somehow the One Shot escaped the confines of the drainage system, dissolved or soaked its way through the floor of the flat and the ceiling of the flat below, and dripped onto the pillow and face of the little boy sleeping underneath. Luckily, the boy was not seriously disfigured, although he obviously received some acid burns to his face. The pillow did not fare so well.

What do you doubt about that?

[Andrew Gabriel]

I had the U-trap off and a bucket under the pipe end. The pipe turns left almost immediately and runs along the wall for a way behind the kitchen units, so not much came out the end unless the head was close. Did have to wash out the cupboard afterwards as what did come out was black. The other problem was the pressure washer leaks (not a problem outside - indeed I hadn't noticed the leak before), but I had to keep mopping up the clean water which was coming out of the case.

[Tim+]

I've got one too. Fantastic for blocked sewers outside the house. I'd never use it inside though.

Tim

[newshound]

Agreed, but you don't need to worry about sulphuric acid attacking plastic drain pipes.

[John Smith]

If you provoke a reaction you can release a lot of heat that can melt plastic. That's the point.

[newshound]

I agree that this is a horrific story, and probably reason enough never to use that product. All credit to the mother for doing exactly the right thing and flushing liberally with water.

My understanding is that PVC, polyethylene, and polypropylene (as used in normal 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch waste pipes) are resistant to concentrated sulphuric acid, but ABS (as used in some 110 mm pipes) is not.

I do wonder, in the quoted case, whether the acid was released because it dissolved a "seal" made from limescale, or perhaps the pipes were already degraded in some other way.

If that 91% concentration is high enough to show the classic overheating reaction when water is added to concentrated sulphuric acid, I am quite surprised to see it so readily available on sale.

[michael adams]

As with acetone that depends on the type of plastic

According to this chart both 75-100% and hot and cold concentrated sulphuric acid have a severe effect on PVC and are not recommended for any use.

And its PVC which I believe, many drainpipes are made of.

michael adams

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[David Lang]

It comes in a plastic bottle and has been around for twenty years without that being a problem.

[michael adams]

Indeed. Plastic's plastic, it's all the same stuff really.

Just the same as wood.

Which must come in handy when explining to the punters why you're knocking up decking from piles of old pallets.

michael adams

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[David Lang]

As regards acid resistance it pretty much is, One Shot has been used for donkey's years. If it damaged plastic pipes it would be well known & the bottle would have a warning on it.

Do you have any evidence that sulphuric acid attacks any kind of plastic???

Totally ridiculous analogy.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Pretty sure that it does, from A level chemistry.

Its a very strong reducing agent IIRC. So any plastic with oxygen molecules in it is prone to attack

looks like the PVC/polythene classes are OK, but acetal which is a sort of nylon, is not.

[michael adams]

Not according to numerous websites. The fact it may not damage plastic drainpipes is only because its diluted with so much water. Maybe you're suggesting there's no problem either in storing it in old plastic milk bottles or plastic lemonade bottles.

You're right. It would have been far better to suggest that the body of your Makita or whatever it is drill, is made from exactly the same stuff as are plastic milk or lemonade bottles

michael adams

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[Chris Hogg]

On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 13:10:17 +0100, David Lang wrote:

LOL to that! Ignorance is bliss!

'Plastic' is an imprecise and generic term. 'Plastic' embraces a large range of chemical compositions. Basically, anything that becomes moldable at moderate temperatures can be and is described as 'a plastic'.

This, from

Quote "Corrosivity to Non-Metals: Sulfuric acid attacks plastics, such as nylon (all concentrations), polyvinylidene chloride (50-100%), acrylonitrile-butadiene-styrene (ABS) (60-100%), styrene acrylonitrile (SAN) (90-100%), polyurethane (rigid) (40-100%), polyetherether ketone (PEEK) (50-100%), olyethylene terephthalate (PET) (40-100%), high-density polyethylene (80-100%) (HDPE), thermoset polyester bisphenol A fumarate (80-100%), thermoset polyester isophathalic acid (70-100%), polystyrene (80-100%) and ethylene vinyl acetate (EVA)(75-100%); elastomers, such as butyl rubber (isobutylene isoprene) (80-100%), nitrile buna N (nitrile rubber) (90-100%), chloroprene (neoprene) (75-100%), isoprene (60-100%), natural rubber (60-100%), hard rubber (60-100%), soft rubber (30-100%), chlorosulfonated polyethylene (CSM) (90-100%), styrene-butadiene (SBR) (10-100%), polyacrylate (10-100%), polyurethane (10-100%), chlorinated polyethylene (all concentrations), nylon 11 and 12 (20-100%), silicone rubbers (120-100%), flexible polyvinyl chloride (PVC) (95-100%), low density polyethylene (LDPE) (90-100%) and ethylene vinyl acetate (50-100%); and coatings, such as coal tar epoxy (10-100%), general purpose epoxy (30-100%), chemical resistant epoxy (60-100%) and vinyls (90-100%). Sulfuric acid does not attack plastics, such as Teflon and other fluorocarbons, like ethylene tetrafluoroethylene (ETFE; Tefzel), ethylene chlorotrifluoroethylene (ECTFE; Halar) and chlorotrifluoroethylene (Kel-F) (all concentrations), polyvinyl chloride (PVC) (up to 96%), chlorinated polyvinyl chloride (CPVC) (up to 96%), polypropylene (up to 98%), acrylonitrile-butadiene-styrene (ABS) (up to 50%), high-density polyethylene (up to 75%) (HDPE),ultrahigh molecular weight polyethylene (UHMWPE) (up to 100%), cross-linked polyethylene (XLPE) (up to 96%), polyetherether ketone (PEEK) (up to 50%) and polystyrene (up to 70%); elastomers, such as Viton A and other fluorocarbons, like Teflon, Chemraz Kalrez and Fluoraz, ethylene propylene(EP) (up to 100%), butyl rubber (isobutylene isoprene) (up to

80%), nitrile buna N (nitrile rubber) (up to 80%), chloroprene (neoprene) (up to 70%, flexible polyvinyl chloride (PVC) (up to 50%) and , low density polyethylene (LDPE) (up to 80%); and coatings, such as polyester (up to 80%), urethanes (up to 80%) and vinyls (up to 80%)." End quote

The figures in brackets refer to the strengths of acid to which the particular plastic is vulnerable. Note that there are some plastics that are attacked by moderately dilute sulphuric acid, but not by concentrated sulphuric acid.

So yes, sulphuric acid attacks 'plastic'. The fact that it's sold in a 'plastic' bottle, merely shows that the mfrs have carefully selected a suitable plastic for that purpose.

[David Lang]

And the fact that it has been used for years without a problem shows that the mfrs have carefully selected a suitable plastic for waste pipes.

Do you really think that B&Q, Wickes, Screwfix, Homebase, Amazon, Asda, Plumbase, Robert Dyas, Tesco, Wilkinsons and every independent plumbers merchant in the UK have been selling a product that damages waste pipes for the last 20 years?

[Chris Hogg]

ABS solvent weld is commonly used in domestic waste pipes. This, from

Quote "ABS polymers are resistant to aqueous acids, alkalis, concentrated hydrochloric and phosphoric acids, alcohols and animal, vegetable and mineral oils, but they are swollen by glacial acetic acid, carbon tetrachloride and aromatic hydrocarbons and are attacked by concentrated sulfuric and nitric acids" Un-quote.

So there's little doubt that One Shot is capable of attacking a great many plastics, including one commonly used in domestic waste situations. That is undeniable. But you make a reasonable point. I note that One Shot is described as a 'drain cleaner'. Perhaps the mfrs don't expect people to use it in domestic waste pipes, only drains, which may be less susceptible to attack than domestic waste pipes, especially if made of stoneware (not that much is, these days). If that's the case, it should be made clear. It's also possible that when the One Shot is poured into a domestic sink, for example, there's enough water in the trap to dilute it down to a safe concentration.

But there's still the case reported in the DM, for which the most obvious explanation is that the One Shot attacked and ate through the pipework.

[michael adams]

Indeed. On the B&Q web page

they don't actually say it can be used on waste pipes. And given that they claim it can dissolve "grease , rags, soap, paper towels in minutes" it's rather surprising that the bottle itself, or the web page isn't plasterd with hazard warnings; maybe other websites are more informative. It's the "rags" bit there that seems a bit scary.

As most people will only discover they have a blocked waste pipe as a result of the pipe filling with water maybe the product is sufficiently diluted during those minutes when its dissolving the grease , rags, soap, paper towels so as to not to effect the plastic, or any joints.

michael adams

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[David Lang]

But in practice it doesn't.

I do.

I

From the One Shot website; DO NOT USE ON ALUMINIUM, GALVANISED METAL, STAINLESS STEEL OR WASTE DISPOSAL UNITS. MAY ETCH ACID SENSITIVE PORCELAIN, ACRYLIC AND ENAMEL FIXTURES. WILL NOT HARM IRON, STEEL, CLAY, LEAD, COPPER, PLASTIC PIPES OR HARM SEPTIC TANKS WHEN USED AS DIRECTED.

I don't think we can entirely trust the DM to report things accurately. We simply don't know what happened. The DM reported "But the liquid was so strong that it melted the pipes, floor and ceiling".

How much did he use? Did he follow the instructions & flush?

The manufacturer clearly states that it will not harm plastic pipes.