Use of sane rational arguments to promote the climate change agenda..

[The Natural Philosopher]

's always nice to see reasoned logical debate on these issues, isn't it?

Meanwhile, for those who prefer humour

[jgharston]

As I remember, school uniforms were all abolished in the '80s in a purge^Wsurge of left-liberal idological mad^Wnon^Wconformism.

JGH

[The Natural Philosopher]

I believe, post Hogwarts, they are rather popular again.

[Ret.]

Many of them do - but IME, the rules on dress are rarely enforced. You only have to look at the 'hitched up' skirts (when the rules say they should be knee length), this silly habit of wearing ties loosely hanging below an open necked shirt and with the front wide part of the tie only showing about two inches below the knot, to see how the kids try their hardest not to conform!

[ARWadsworth]

Me too.

[Dave Liquorice]

Yes, all three local schools (2 x Primary, 1 x Secondary) have uniforms. Other larger secondary schools near by also have uniforms.

Personally we support uniforms, it gives an identity to the school, a sense of belonging to the pupils (though they won't admit it...), avoids peer pressure to have the latest fashion. Which can put extreme stress on both parents and pupils who can't afford =A350 for a T shirt every other week, or even =A350 for a T shirt full stop.

[Tim Watts]

Both of ours do (primary and secondary state) and it is well adhered to. The primary uniform is "optional but strongly encouraged" and in practise 100% wear it - because we have a school that is small but everyone is proud of it. It's not expensive - all bar the PE top and jumper are bog standard M&S/BHS wear anyway and the jumpers last more or less, until the kid grows out of them and aren't expensive either. Even for "poor" parents, it is probably a cheaper option than letting the kids buy less robust designer gear and knackering it climbing trees! And it does have the advantage that there is no constant fashion show going on everyday with a "keep up with the Jones" whining at me to get every more fancy clothes for my kids.

The secondary school lot do too, which is more surprising - not sure if it is "optional" or not there.

If I get the later train to work, it's full of extremely well turned out kids going to the various grammars around Tonbridge/T Wells.

[Alan]

In message , Tim Watts wrote

Surely you mean George at Asda, Tesco or Matalan?

[tim....]

I have a friend who, as a marketing manager (with a major multinational), used to go to work like that.

As someone who discarded wearing a tie to work 20 years ago, I asked him if he thought that this presented a better impression for someone in his position, than no tie at all.

He said "yes".

tim

[Tim Watts]

Probably - just happens there are none near me...

[Skipweasel]

All those round here do.

[jgharston]

When I was at school in the '80s the council abolished school uniform against the wishes of parents and senior teachers. The council argued that it was socially divisive and oppressive and forced children into boxes and supressed their personality.

When I was a governor at my old school in 2000-08 they had a "uniform", which was a standard coloured jumper with the MGS logo emboidered on it. Pah. Nothing like the proper badge and latin motto from my day.

The school is being demolished and rebuilt and part of the newbuild is "a full school uniform comprising shirt, tie and blazer."

JGH

[Chris J Dixon]

Although my ex-employer never did have a dress code, a few years ago a new relaxed one was formalised. There was no mention of gender, though it was clearly written with men in mind:

Shirts must have a collar. No predominant logos or slogans. No blue denim. (other colours presumably OK) No trainers. Shorts permissible, but must be tailored.

This was for a trial period. Exactly what they would have done if they had eventually decide to discontinue it was unclear. Perhaps they would have had to define what we previously wore without compulsion.

As it happened there was no reversion. However, the company had several reorganisations of departments, and some parts of it were still firmly in the lounge suit era.

Interestingly, when we occasionally had corporate video presentations, practically all the global chiefs were tie-less. Indeed, when I used to visit company sites in Sweden or Germany, I generally dressed down (to UK standards) so as not to appear overdressed by theirs.

After too many years, I was happy to ditch the ties. Last time the subject came up I simple commented that I had signed off many official Design Certificates, for assorted rolling stock worth about GBP 700 million, without my tie, and none of them had been rejected because of this.

I'm quite OK with not wearing ties, but really don't like to see the top button of the shirt still done up.

Chris

[Bob Eager]

Not round here. In fact, the two schools that recently federated, of which I am a governor, recently defined a new common uniform. Ther4e are government rules about costs, and sole suppliers, so that it doesn't disadvantage less well-off parents.

[Skipweasel]

Our local split infants/junior school is going through the motions of jointing up to become a primary school - though it's not yet decided it looks likely.

We've decided that we'll almost certainly provide the children with a jumper to suit the new uniform (they're currently different) 'cos being a very poor area many of the parents can't easily afford a replacement, particularly for four kids at once.

[Nick Odell]

Four jumpers? That's ridiculous. Surely in these days of deficits, cutbacks and the Big Society, poor families only need to send one of their children to school: the others can do something more useful - like scrubbing floors or cleaning chimneys.

Nick

[dennis]

As long as the jumper doesn't have some stupid school logo on it they cost peanuts in Asda/tesco. Its schools that insist on logos that force parents to go to specialist suppliers and pay through the nose for uniforms. Its the same with blazers, you can buy one for less than the badge that some schools want pupils to have. I don't really understand why schools want this gang culture anyway as long as they outlaw stupid fashions that only the better off can afford dress isn't a problem. Its when they allow expensive fashions that some can't afford that bullies get something to do.

[Bob Eager]

We went further and are providing the non-generic parts (blazer, tie etc.) to all years apart from the incoming year 7.

[jgharston]

At MGS in my day all the uniform components were generic standardised clothing, you just bought the badge from the school and sewed it onto the blazer. Still have mine!

JGH

[Skipweasel]

We have a logo on the "official" jumpers, but children are allowed to wear a chain-store equivalent without logo. And many do.

The real bone of contention is shoes. Girls in flat court shoes - can't run in the playground, aren't allowed on the climbing frame but complain when they're told they have to wear suitable shoes to be allowed on the adventure play area that they're the shoes mum buys. And black? Well, it'd be nice, but unlikely.