Urgent help needed: tiling

[Stephen]

I'm trying miserably to remove old tiles from the wall in the bathroom just the standard 3 high rows, I'm using a 5 inch bolster type looking thing and a hammer. I managed to remove six without damaging the wall, but I have now damaged the plaster behind it and if I try sticking a tile there is have nothing but a rubble backing to stick on to ?

:-s do I need to have this re-plastered now ?

or buy some pre-made plaster from B&Q and just try and fill it and rub it down ready for tiling ?

I fear if I carry on trying to remove more tiles more damage will occur, also whacked my bolster holding hand 6 times and has lumps on it all over, ouch, never did have a good aim lol...

But I only have to monday to have the wall prepped for tiling.

Any advice on what to do with a sore hand :)

Appreciate any advice on how to preceed forward from here.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No.

better.

get girlfriend/boyfriend to suck it?

precession is going backwards.

rip the lot down, and if you have some, pva the crumbling mess heavily to stabilize it. Then roughly fill any major holes with any old plaster/car body filler/tile cement you have handy.

Then tile using straight edge to make sure everything is square.

[Stuart Noble]

I'd carry on regardless of the damage, plaster the area flat tomorrow, and with any luck it'll be dry enough to tile on Monday. It really only has to be flattish. The easiest plaster for a novice is the pre-mixed lightweight stuff in a bucket from Wickes etc. If your tiles are set in cement (as was the fashion circa 1930) they are a bitch to get off. If they were fixed with tile adhesive, you shouldn't be having that much trouble, but a thin edge such as a 4" paint scraper can sometimes work better than a bolster IME.

[A.Clews]

Thus spake Stephen ( [e-mail]) unto the assembled multitudes:

First time I refitted a bathroom most of the plaster came away with the old tiles (which probably dated back to the 1950s), quite often down to the brickwork. It looked like the tiles had been fixed with mortar rather than tiling adhesive. I paid someone to re-render and re-plaster the wall, as I didn't (and still don't) regard myself as skilled in that regard. I fixed the tiles myself though.

In my next place, the tiles came away quite easily and little repair work was needed on the wall.

Swings and roundabouts!

[Andy Dingley]

Use a thinner chisel, so you're hitting things "flatter". You can also get right-angled ones, which are easier to work with (great for floot tiles) Aim to slip a wedge under the back of the tile, not to chisel into the plaster, or to "chisel them off". A strong (bolstered through) paint scraper can be good, although it's going to hurt it as a scraper.

Yes, it's easy enough. Plastering is easy enough in patches (getting big walls flat is where it gets hard). Also plastering well enough to take tiles is a much lower goal than a really good finish.

Loads of time yet.

A projection laser level (self-levelling, sits on a tripod, projects a vertical / horizontal cross beam, 40-50 from cheap shops) They make tiling so much quicker and easier.

A Plasplugs wet tile saw (made of black plastic. The cheap metal things break)

Moulded plastic tile spacers, not faffing about with four times as many matchsticks.

Dry tile adhesive is cheaper than wet and easy to mix, but wet's fine. OTOH, combination "fix and grout" has the consistency of trifle and is no bloody use at all.

A proper rubber tiler's sponge (Axminster, couple of quid) wipes grout far better than a cloth or the usual polyurethane foam sponge.

[Stephen]

Phew!

Got it :)

Wife, has kissed my bubu better.

Mean't proceed, what happens when you whack your fingers with a hammer lol your keyboard skills take the brunt lol.

Interesting I'll get some pva, and then fill that in it and then plaster it ? and rub it down ready for tiling.

Like it been super glued X 1000 on but after removing a few I saw just normal dorwnish tile adhesive.

I think I have gone wrong with the bolster and need something thinner like a scrapper. Not sure that will like to be hit though.

Thanks fella great advice.

[js.b1]

If the bathroom is not cold in winter...

- Just repair any ripped out plaster with bonding plaster

- Thistle 12.5kg is about =A35-6, buy a float for =A312

If the bathroom is cold in winter...

- Use the opportunity to insulate the wall with Marmox (cement on front & rear, interspersed by varying thicknesses of waterproof extruded polystyrene insulation).

- Marmox gives you a perfectly flat surface without needing a plaster, improves comfort as only the bathroom air need be heated

- Marmox can be skimmed with plaster or tiled or used for showers (do not use plywood)

The downside is that Marmox is however not cheap,

6-10-12.5-20-30-40-50mm are =A310-20 for 1250x600mm sheets, however most bathrooms are not enormous and the saving on a plasterer is considerable. It's just a bigger version of tiles, cut and snap with a knife, easy.

Worthwhile if you have a cold bathroom with two outside walls, not worthwhile if you have a recent house stuffed with insulation (although people do like marmox anyway re faster & cheaper than a plasterer).

[Stephen]

Thats what I was thinking stuart, a paint scrapper as it seems the bolster is just digging the crap out of the wall.

...goes on the hunt for a scrapper.

[Stephen]

Massively helpful post Andy.

I'll get all I need ready for tommorow as I have to stop now but I'll hopefully get them all off tommorow, rub it all down a bit and plaster any damaged bits and it will have the rest of friday and weekend to set.

Tommorows target remove tiles and plaster lol :)

[js.b1]

SDS with a 4" tile removal chisel avoids this.

If you just need to repair plaster it only takes a few minutes.

Ice and get a bolster with a plastic guard (they don't do much, but better than nothing).

[NT]

Very fast way to clear tiles off is an sds drill with a chisel in it.

Just patch any missing lumps with plaster if the wall's plastered, or you could use cement/sand. For minor dints, ignore them.

If you've got extra time & cash and its an old non-cavity wall I'd consider adding insulation. Payback is hardly worthwhile, but it makes the room more comfortable.

NT

[Tim W]

NT wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 16:49

Also seconded. What matters is having a stable mostly flat surface (though tile adhesive is forgiving, it's just a little easier to start flat than to have to make *many* corrections whilst laying tiles).

As to finish - rough is good with tiles. It's an ideal way to practise patch plastering because it really doesn't matter what it looks like as long as it's firmly stuck (use of PVA as seems to be the norm with plastering these days is recommended).

Marmox. Ideal to tile directly on to, waterproof and can be bonded or screwed to the wall (whichever holds better for the state of the wall and with due regard to the weight of the tiles being added).

[The Natural Philosopher]

use the breadknife your wife bought because it looked brill, but cant actually cut bread.

[John Rumm]

No - patching with bonding plaster and a straight edge will do it. You need a flat but not particularly smooth surface to tile onto.

Too late now, but if the original tiles are level and well fixed, you can tile over them abrade the surface with a coarse abrasive to help adhesion)/

For de-tiling I use a 40mm wide chisel bit in the end of a SDS drill. The tiles fly off the wall like confetti, and your hands stay hand shaped.

Other tips for tiling:

An adhesive spreading trowel (like a plasterers trowel with notches down the side) is way faster and easier than the silly bit of plastic in the top of the tub of glue. A proper rubber faced grout float makes applying the grout easy ans fast with little waste. A decent rubber sponge makes the final cleanup and polish much easier.

Avoid fix'n'grout - glues like grout and grouts like glue! If using plastic tile spacers, don't bother laying them flat against the wall in the corners - far more versatile used like matchsticks (different rotations give subtle changes in spacing that can accommodate slight errors in alignment that build up).

[GB]

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned Aquaboard or marine ply. One advantage is that it brings the tiles out past the rim of the bath, so you get a better seal - especially important if you are going to fit a shower.

[Jim]

Has chasing the edge of the bath into the wall gone out of fashion?

[The Natural Philosopher]

I simply silicone the bath to the wall BEFORE tiling.

[John Rumm]

I do that *and* chase the edge into the wall. ;-)

(depends on how much roll edge of the bath you need to lose to get a flat surface to tile down to).