upvc push fit union just failed for no apparent reason!

[orion.osiris]

Anyone else had this problem with push fit? In my case the 15mm pipe (cold water feed to washing machine) was also pvc.= The pipe just popped out of the union for no reason I can find and spewed = several gallons of water over the floor before I noticed and was able to sh= ut off the supply. Scary! Thank god I was here when it happened! On examination, the pipe seems to have been cut square and whoever did the = joint used a steel insert as one should to reinforce the plastic pipe at th= e insertion point to the joiner. It was fully screwed home. But strangely I= couldn't see any serrations around the pipe where you would expect the tee= th of the push fitting's ring to bite in. The joint has been in place since= at least I bought this house and was not leaking prior to its disastrous f= ailure. Any ideas?=20 I'm just wondering if push-fit requires a certain minimum water pressure to= function properly?

TIA

[Brian Gaff]

Maybe the material has become less pliable with age and has just given up, but if you see no serrations you might have been on borrowed time for some time.. grin.

Brian

[The Medway Handyman]

I thought it was a plastic insert for push fit & the steel were for compression fittings?

>

[polygonum]

I think it depends on the manufacturer - Hep2O (well, in the version I used, there has been some redesign since) had stainless steel inserts.

[Andy Champ]

Had one pop off the feed into the cistern into my son's flat. Didn't get a chance to examine it - I'm 3 hours away - but it had only just been fitted.

Andy

[orion.osiris]

Nope. The internals looked almost like new. But I reckon a lot of the plumbing here was installed by a wanker, so I'm removing all the push-fits and replacing them with soldered joints. I have never trusted push-fit anyway.

[orion.osiris]

I don't see that making the slightest bit of difference. The inserts are = only there to provide rigidity, so so long as they provide something robust= to prevent the plastic pipe from getting squished it doesn't matter what t= hey're made of so far as I can see...

[Dave Liquorice]

Except that plastic ones are thicker and restrict the flow (even more).

[harry]

c. The pipe just popped out of the union for no reason I can find and spewe= d several gallons of water over the floor before I noticed and was able to = shut off the supply. Scary! Thank god I was here when it happened!

e joint used a steel insert as one should to reinforce the plastic pipe at = the insertion point to the joiner. It was fully screwed home. But strangely= I couldn't see any serrations around the pipe where you would expect the t= eeth of the push fitting's ring to bite in. The joint has been in place sin= ce at least I bought this house and was not leaking prior to its disastrous= failure. Any ideas?

to function properly?

If water pressure is high, solenoid valves can shut off with quite a bang. The"spike" in water pressure can be ten times higher than normal. The purpose of the filter in them (as well as filtering) is to reduce water velocity and hence the pressure "spike".

I don't trust these push fit things anyway. Only a wanker would use them. Needless expense.

I also think that at some point in the future they are almost bound to leak.

[Jim K]

c. The pipe just popped out of the union for no reason I can find and spewe= d several gallons of water over the floor before I noticed and was able to = shut off the supply. Scary! Thank god I was here when it happened!

e joint used a steel insert as one should to reinforce the plastic pipe at = the insertion point to the joiner. It was fully screwed home. But strangely= I couldn't see any serrations around the pipe where you would expect the t= eeth of the push fitting's ring to bite in. The joint has been in place sin= ce at least I bought this house and was not leaking prior to its disastrous= failure. Any ideas?

to function properly?

maybe "the wanker" responsible took apart the fitting and then reassembled it with the barbed/teethy bit the wrong way round - hence no grip and no marks form teeth?

Jim K

[Man at B&Q]

pvc. The pipe just popped out of the union for no reason I can find and spe= wed several gallons of water over the floor before I noticed and was able t= o shut off the supply. Scary! Thank god I was here when it happened!

the joint used a steel insert as one should to reinforce the plastic pipe a= t the insertion point to the joiner. It was fully screwed home. But strange= ly I couldn't see any serrations around the pipe where you would expect the= teeth of the push fitting's ring to bite in. The joint has been in place s= ince at least I bought this house and was not leaking prior to its disastro= us failure. Any ideas?

e to function properly?

That makes you well qualified, then.

MBQ

[NewsOnline]

I had this happen with a 22mm fitting at a house refurb. When we looked at it, you could see where the grab ring had worked its way down the insertion depth and finally let go. Everything had been done to the book - square cut ends with Rothenberger cutter, correct plastic inserts fitted and yet it still failed - the fitting hadn't been taken apart, the 'O' ring, spacer and grab ring were all there and in the correct order. Consequently, I got the guys to remove the plastic pipework and fittings (all from a well known DIY shed) in the bathroom and replace it with copper as they had that to hand and could get on with the job. As you can imagine it caused a real mess - especially as the guys ignored my request that they turn off the water when they left the empty house. A few weeks later I heard of a similar problem someone else ( a pro plumber) had run into - he hadn't wanted to use the plastic pipe, but the client had insisted. In our case we assumed that sub-standard fitting or pipe combined with an increase in water pressure overnight caused the problem.

That said, in the past we've used Hep2o for all kinds of applications including temporary kitchens in marquees which were installed then broken down, stored and re-used the next year. That went on for at least 10 years to my knowledge - we've never had so much as a drip much less have a fitting fail completely. Hepworth is the only brand I'd use - simply because of my good experience with their system. FWIW, I'd stay away from DIY shed kit - go for a brand that pros use. Still don't think you can beat copper.

[ARW]

You can with a hammer:-)

And here is an extract from an old email from a customer of mine who has Acorn plumbing (that has never had a drip)

"Without any authority I think the first waste pipes may have been made by a Dutch firm called Wavin who were owned by Shell (who supplied the polypropylene, and later ABS powder). Wavin set up a factory in Wiltshire and sold waste products under the Osma trademark, and still do.

This was followed by PVC rainwater gutter and fittings, at which point Kevin McDonald set up Bartol Plastics in Edlington in competition, later bought out by the Hepworth Iron Company of Hazlehead, makers of clay pipes. McDonald then left, set up McDee Plastics making skateboards etc, and then created Polypipe, in direct competition with Bartol, Wavin, Hunter, Paragon, and others.

Polybutylene pipe for drinking water was introduced by Bartol Plastics around 1982 under the tradename Acorn, to complement the fittings introduced in c1979; Acorn later was renamed Hep2o.

Hepworth Building Products was bought out by Wavin in 2005, just as I left."

Well I was in Edlington this week and it now says Wavin and not Hepworth on the signs outside the factory. It's been a while since I drove past the factory.

[paulbracketco]

c. The pipe just popped out of the union for no reason I can find and spewe d several gallons of water over the floor before I noticed and was able to shut off the supply. Scary! Thank god I was here when it happened!

e joint used a steel insert as one should to reinforce the plastic pipe at the insertion point to the joiner. It was fully screwed home. But strangely I couldn't see any serrations around the pipe where you would expect the t eeth of the push fitting's ring to bite in. The joint has been in place sin ce at least I bought this house and was not leaking prior to its disastrous failure. Any ideas?

to function properly?