UK power generation

[The Other Mike]

On the French interconnector and on the Dutch interconnector (and probably on the Irish ones too) it is *impossible* to trade export to the point where it affects system margin in the UK.

If you mean all of it then that is not classed as a credible fault.

64GW is also around 10GW *above* the currently predicted max demand this winter (1 November 2012 to 28 February 2013) although we peaked at around 55GW levels yesterday and the predicted peak tomorrow is nearly 58GW

As I've said previously this winter isn't going to be a problem and given a triple dip recession we are possibly secure for a few more winters to come...

[The Other Mike]

There is not that much that is mothballed. Fawley was originally 2GW but 1GW of that hasn't run for the best part of a decade. The whole place is permanently closing in a few months. Grain has 1.3GW mothballed with 1.3GW available until end of 2015 , Littlebrook 1GW mothballed, 1GW available until 2015, Kingsnorth has nearly run out of hours under LCPD. That covers the English oil generation. Scotland has Peterhead but there are severe constraints on export across into England.

As ar as coal is concerned Ironbridge at 1GW is running out of hours under the LCPD and Didcot A 2GW is going at the end of March 2013.

Some like Wylfa (the last of the Magnox's) 0.5GW are shutting much sooner than that, almost certainly this coming year. Others will go before 2019 (Heysham 2

1.2GW, Hartlepool 1.2GW, Hinkley Point B 0.9GW) Dungeness B 1GW probably about the same time, Hunterston B 1GW is now 2023 as is Torness 1.3GW. Sizewell B 1.2GW is currently 2035

So that leaves just 3.5GW of nukes post 2019, and 1.2GW post 2023. A f*cking disgrace.

Recession and sky high prices will drive demand down. The folly of privatisation and the dash for gas is coming to bite the UK and destroy its economy.

[The Natural Philosopher]

60GW has been seen..

I think so too, barring some unexpected and 'in-credible' fault somewhere.

[The Natural Philosopher]

There is an election coming up in 2015... I would bet that by that time there wont be much of an EU, and the LCP directive will be ignored.

And catastrophic climate change will be all about an impending little ice age.,

[tony sayer]

Its all off err .1 GW at the moment perhaps we'd best switch summatt off;?....

[tony sayer]

In article , Grimly Curmudgeon scribeth thus

So what's the power situation over there then Grimly?...

[Tim Watts]

I will have my insulation and a 4kW central-to-the-house coal stove - so we will not freeze.

I think I will equip the CH when I do it with a contingency supply from a generator so at least HW keeps working too - I'll arrange a single feed to the boiler, pumps and control circuits on a 13A plug with 2 sockets - the

2nd socket being fed from a male weatherproof "socket" outside.

Might as well run that circuit to the computer/network/wifi areas too...

[jgharston]

All more evidence as to the stupidity of the obsession with electric heating that is the only sane justification for the obsession with using gas to make electricity instead of sending the gas down pipes to consumers where they can use it to make heat directly.

JGH

[Richard Russell]

I'm thinking of doing the same, but given that our CH is gas rather than oil is there much point? In the event of a major electricity supply failure does the gas keep flowing (and indeed the water)?

Richard.

[The Natural Philosopher]

what obsession with electric heating?

[The Natural Philosopher]

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

Still got a couple of peat-fired stations (which the EU don't like at all, at all), got some oil and gas burners too. There's 20 minutes of stored power in a pumped hydro and some actual hydro on the Shannon.

is slowly gathering momentum and before the shit hits the fan big time, might actually get somewhere. TNP notwithstanding, there are massive areas on the western seaboard where the wind doth blow and the water could flow - all we need to do is kill off the nimbys.

[Andy Champ]

How the heck do they get the steam side of it up and running in 20 minutes? I'd assumed it really was a shaft turbine (and you can fire them up full power from cold, although it's cruel) feeding some kind of boiler with the exhaust.

So - 20 minutes to get the oil warmed up, let the blades heat evenly, and the GT part is running. I can easily believe that.

But surely the steam must take longer? And surely until the steam is up to heat you're using just as much gas for the turbine side as you would after the steam is running?

I'm obviously missing something. Comes of having fans an inch across in my kit...

Though short term (~= ad. breaks) isn't what bothers me. It's the 3 days flat calm nationwide we get occasionally.

Andy

[Andy Champ]

Trouble is the wind bloweth not all the time. And you need another system you can turn on when there isn't any wind.

Andy

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think they have very small flash steam type boilers.

Better than that. I think the gas turbine is pretty much full output in

10-12 mins on the latest ones. From a cold start.

Yes, the steam does take longer.. thats 40 mins or so. But yes, they are running at that point at OCGT efficiency - 37% or so. As opposed to 60% plus with the steam section up. I had some time/output curves somewhere.

Like today.

I pissed myself larfing when some mad ozzie bitch who runs the green party was on 'Jeff Randall' who said that the way to solve the energy crisis wasn't to use gas at all, especially not fracked, offshore wind farms solar panels and economising would be all we needed to do.

It was by then dark, freezing cold, and the total wind output across the UK from over 6GW of installed kit was less than 1% of the national demand. Which peaked at 56.7 GW.

I was wondering whether to write to her and ask her to send me some of what she had been smoking, but then I realised it had patently caused terminal brain damage.

[The Natural Philosopher]

So you can build wind follies while the new East West link supplies the real power from coal power stations, so you get to keep the moral high ground and pretend you have a sustainable grid, and we burn the coal to keep your dreams alive?

Sheesh. Why aren't you breeding Leprechauns instead?

[The Other Mike]

Not seen anything that high, February 2012 was around 59GW

Highest demand of this winter was today at 56652 between 1700 and 1730

[The Other Mike]

Having blighted nearly the entire coastline with ugly 1970's house shaped objects painted white the view from the sea to land is vile. Sticking wind turbines out at sea will spoil the view the other way. If ever there was a need to demonstrate the devastating impact of a hands off approach to planning then the coastline of Ireland is it.

Build a few nukes FFS and stop desecrating the country with wind turbines.

[geoff]

Not if there's any electronics in your boiler

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

Read the site.