TV problem

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Thanks!
Just a small point, when you reply to a post, it is common practice to place your reply at the bottom of the last post, snipping off any stuff irrelevant to the current post - it makes reading the conversation everso slightly easier for other people!
Sparks...
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<snip>

I suggest you read those articles again *carefully* and ignore the bits which refer to analogue recording systems like VHS, and to the DVD *players* which may or may not output PAL or NTSC signals. I'm talking about the DVDs themselves.
--
*(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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Correct. And the player does the conversion.

No they aren't.

There is between PAL and NTSC, true.

As is film.

625 - usually, and definitely in this country. But the number of lines is irrelevant as to whether it's PAL. PAL only refers to the type of colour information.

525 in the US. And it's not actually 30 frames per second either.

Assuming it is a film, it probably consists of 24 frames per second....

I think you need to research a wee bit further...

You've guessed wrong.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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wrote:

The player will only convert if the video on the DVD is in the other format

Ok, what are they then? - Please explain without just saying its all digital! the movie has to be made up of frames of a certain definition and rate!

speed..
Ok, I got this the wrong way around here, I agree UK PAL has 625, and NTSC has 525

sorry, 29.97 FPS

As I said, it was a guess

Probably a Tea break
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wrote:

So why do most of my region 2 DVD's have PAL UK or Colour-PAL on the back then?
For fun?
Sparks...
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yes,
Notice any differance between the two images here? http://www2.tsbcs.co.uk/dvds/dvds.htm
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<Snip>

I was being too lazy to bottom post yesterday - getting irritated by soap-box Dave.
Quick look at Amazon reveals: (Amazon.com product link shortened) 7/202-0775728-0901449
Note: PAL video format for this particular disc.
And this one from CDWow
http://www1.cd-wow.com/detail_results_2.php?product_codeg86
Encoding NTSC
I rest my case.
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You'll notice only some of them have. It's just used to identify the UK etc version coding wise - people are used to seeing PAL on a VHS which really *does* mean PAL.
Some VHS tapes also used to say NICAM stereo, which is equally stupid - a case of marketing triumphing over reality.
Have you ever downloaded a movie clip off the net? Does it ask you whether you want the PAL or NTSC version? No? DVD uses effectively the same system.
--
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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Yes I have, and yes there are different formats of clips
...and yes, I have been asked what format I wanted
Some are 720x576 @ 25 FPS Some are 720x480 @ 29.97 FPS
Have you ever created a DVD? I guess not, as if you had you would know this...
Sparks...
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But not PAL or NTSC?

Are you trying to move the goalposts somewhat?
--
*Arkansas State Motto: Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Laugh.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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wrote:

Nope, 720x576 @ 25 FPS is the PAL standard, used on PAL systems 720x480 @ 29.97 FPS is the NTSC standard used on NTSC systems
The origanal poster had problems playing DVD's on an old TV, this TV may not have supported the NTSC standard, therefore he got a black and white picture.
Maybe the wording should have been a NTSC format DVD, rather then just a NTSC DVD
Either way, DVD's ARE different, Some use the PAL fomat (720x576 @ 25 FPS) Some use the NTSC format (720x480 @ 29.97 FPS)
Are you happy with that statment, or are you going to tell me it is incorrect without explaining why, like you did in the first place?
Sparks...
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For the last time it's nothing to do with PAL. It might well be the 625/25 standard

But the TV was happy to lock to the wrong line and frame frequencies?

No, anything saying BTSC or PAL is inaccurate.

I don't think I'm getting through....

You haven't read or understood anyone of the many explanations, clearly.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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Which is most likely to be colour encoded using PAL or SECAM. There is nothing preventing this being used to generate NTSC encoded composite video.
Since PAL is effectivly NTSC v2 most modern PAL chipsets will handle either encoding.

Perfectly possible, since the line and frame oscillators are not free running. Though the right hand edge of the picture might well be missing with a black bar at the bottom of the screen.
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It's not this simple, PAL, NTSC & SECAM are colour encodings, not frame rates. This tends to confuse a lot of people though.
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If you play a video file on a computer it never exists as composite video. Televisions tend only to accept composite video + composite sync (in the case of an S-VHS lead the composite video and composite sync actually go down different wires.)
In order to create composite video the R,G,B (or more likely Y, U, V) signals need to be encoded using either NTSC, PAL or SECAM.
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Composite video is just that - everything down the one cable.
S-Video is separate luminance (Y) and chrominance (C), with the syncs on the Y circuit.
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*Reality is the illusion that occurs due to the lack of alcohol *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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Dave Plowman wrote:

One point has been overlooked in this thread, there is also the question of how the material on the disc has been digitised. If it has been encoded to CCIR 601 standard, then it is by *definition*, PAL encoded isn't it ;)
Lee
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Lee Blaver wrote:

And I mean *prior* to mpeg conversion before someone starts ;)
Lee
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"Lee Blaver" wrote in message

NO, absolutely it isn't - or were you trolling?
ITU-R Rec. BT601 (to use the full up-to-date title) is a standard for sampling and digitisation of video in _component_ form (i.e. with separate luminance and colour difference channels - Y, Cb, Cr). The whole shooting match was designed to simplify the process of exchanging material between 625/50 and 525/60 countries and the luminance sampling rate (13.5 MHz) was chosen to be compatible with both - it's 864 times the horizontal scan frequency for 625/50 systems and 858 times for 525/60.
Colour pictures can, and do, now go all the way from the studio to your CRT without going through PAL or NTSC codecs at all - and very much better they are for it too (provided that MPEG compression isn't overdone).
Of course DVDs aren't PAL or NTSC. These are now obsolescent analogue colour coding systems which were designed to bolt colour on to the luminance waveform in a compatible-ish manner, using a QAM sub-carrier. But they will be either 625/50 (720x576) or 525/60 (720x488). If you care about picture quality then the last thing you want to do is to turn 'em back into PAL (or NTSC) - so use RGB all the way to the tube if possible (with the half-way house, S-video, as second choice). Composite and modulated RF outputs _are_ PAL or NTSC and are clearly inferior.
--
Andy



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Andy Wade wrote:

Well I did add the smiley... :-)
Lee
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