TV mumbling well OT

I wondered what Dave thought about this. I just assumed it was my hearing going.

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Also, I need an update on his boiler. Gas valve? Hm.....

Reply to
Stuart Noble
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The problem with mumbling is not a new one or confined to bbc. it seems to be how the sound is derived when the program is made. Omni mics hidden in things, gun mics and lack of proper control of boom mics. I get the feeling that what has happened is that too much store is put on the video quality and nobody really listens to the sound when its being made. When you cannot see the picture you tend to notice in the middle of otherwise continuous scenes, jumps in the acoustic behind the sound and the character of the voice that really should have been heard when in production. Its the audio version of a continuity error. Its not a new thing either, listen to someone Last of the summer Wine episodes with no picture and hear stuff like jumps in an aircraft noise in the distance and vehicles that you can hear suddenly stop.

In an interview the other day, the sound on the answers had a buzz, and the questions were clean, as if the questions had been re recorded and edited in over the originals.

Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

... especially not on bog-standard equipment like what us plebs (the public) use. If they checked the output by simply *watching* a programme on an ordinary modern TV, they might see what the public are up against.

J.

Reply to
Another John

As you get older, your hearing becomes less acute, but particularly so at high frequencies. So, you lose some of the auditory cues. Imagine trying to view a stained glass window where you can't see any of the blue glass.

Also, as you get older, your brain becomes less good at processing.

I quite often put on subtitles, and I put it down to the these two deficits catching up on me. I'm delighted to hear that it's actually down to poor sound recording. Thanks very much. You've made me feel ten years younger. :)

If the interview is not done in the studio, it's standard practice to have just one camera. Even so, in the completed programme, you normally see full face videos of the questions and answers. That involves recording the interview twice, from the two camera angles. There's obviously scope for some shenanigans, particularly if the questions are re-recorded without the interviewee present.

Reply to
GB

Several reasons IMHO. The obvious one that some actors do indeed mumble. And using personal mics hidden under loads of thick clothing doesn't help. You'd normally 'tweak' the frequency response of the mic to get back some of the lost top end - but for some reason this isn't done (properly) these days. Perhaps it brings up too much noise from the clothing.

Other thing is those approving the final mix of the programme already know what the words are. They've heard it many many times. Unlike the viewer...

Using boom mics would get round the appalling quality of personal mics under clothing. But the fashion these days is to shoot using several cameras and choose which shots to use afterwards. And if this includes a wide shot, the boom mic would be forced too far away for the average noisy non studio that is so popular these days. Often just a shed with no sound proofing at all.

Yes it was. And the odd thing is I *thought* I had checked it first thing. But it was definitely open circuit. So I had two independant faults after that leak was sorted.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

The main problem with the tiny speakers in flat panel displays is lack of bass. That tends to *enhance* speech intelligibility.

Reply to
Graham.

I've not noticed a problem - even with the crappy inbuilt speakers. Perhaps it's just the few programs and mostly films I watch are OK.

However, a sound bar (which I thought was a bit of a fad[1]) does make a nice difference. [1] Obviously not as good as proper HiFi, but the Yamaha bar I have is actually surprisingly good consider how little space it consumes. The stereo is narrow as expected, but the frequency response is nice, partly due to a big fat woofer.

Reply to
Tim Watts

I also wonder if it has something to do with so many difference contractors and production companies being used. You could imagine in the old days of Auntie, that there'd be a fairly well understood set of conditions and solutions to sound engineering - and this would be ingrained in apprentice staff as well as communicated all over the Beeb.

Perhaps some of the subcontractors just aren't that good - and will never get better as they probably don;t talk shop with their competitors.

Just a theory...

Reply to
Tim Watts

The standard of diction on television and radio is appalling. If Irene Handl could enunciate and project in a 'cockney' accent, why the actors on EastEnders can't I don't know.

And on Absolute 80s this morning they cut off half the travel update with the jingle and didn't apologise afterwards. I didn't even do that in my student radio days. [1]

Owain

[1] We wus too poor to 'ave jingles, couldn't even afford coconut shells for horses' hooves, etc.
Reply to
spuorgelgoog

One of the programs that I find difficult is University Challenge. The contestants - no problem. Paxo - muffled and unclear though possibly slightly louder than the students. It does vary a bit but some editions are considerably worse than others.

And, in Happy Valley, the problem for me wasn't muffling, unclarity, or anything like that - it was the cut from program to music at the end. Volume went from fine to extra loud, despite actually liking it, I had to turn it down.

The BBC seems to specialise in making music at start and end of programs extra loud - beaten only by the increased volume of continuity and, even more so, trails, compared to the insides of real programs.

Reply to
polygonum

Not when the audio bandwidth has been reduced to squeeze the data into the channel bandwidth.

Reply to
Capitol

And even when "speaking up" can't be heard by the boom op standing 6' away...

doesn't

Double plus 1. Unless there is a *very* good reason for personal mics on a drama they should stay in the box.

several

includes

Director not being able to direct his way out of a paper bag is not a good reason for personal mics. Multi-camera is only a serious problem when doing tight and wide of the same subject at the same time, bloody pointless you can only be on one or the other! It's a joy to work with a director who knows to the word when he'll be cutting and to what shot. They'll be able to shoot tight and wide effectively because they can say when the boom can be in the wide and not panic when it is.

They can be pretty quiet byt the time they've been packed with sets etc. Unless under a flight path or next to a motorway. Rain on the roof can be a show stopper.

Yep. And to some extent the same applied to the various ITV companies.

At the budget end of programme making but that doesn't apply to the likes of Jamaica Inn. Most of that was the actor/director combination.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

But no doubt the student radio jingle was fired off by a finger proding a button at the correct point in the programme flow. Stations like Absolute 80's are coming from playout systems, if the 2'30" travel bulletin is loaded as running 1'30" after at 1'30 it'll be cut and the jingle played full stop. There won't be a person available to apologise and even if there was it would fup up the time line...

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Could well be. As a staff member, you're more likely to stand up to a director you know who is wrong. As a freelance, may not do your work prospects much good.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Most TVs should go low enough for decent speech clarity. It's the speakers not pointing forward that can cause the most problems, since they rely on reflected sound, which is going to vary according to the installation. And the fact they are stereo, but have to reproduce mono for dialogue. If they aren't reflecting equally, you'll get some cancellation.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

I'm trying to remember the last drama I've heard on TV which used booms. Excepting soaps and long running series, etc. They may well have a boom credit, but are all personal mics. And if you have to use them on some of it, the temptation is to do the whole thing on them to avoid a vast change in sound quality. Certainly, all the ones where there have been complaints over poor intelligibility have been personal mics.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Not quite; we lowered the stylus onto the SFX record :-)

Owain

Reply to
spuorgelgoog

No instant start turntable? ;-)

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

No, but still faster than the CD player which took about 8 seconds to spin up even after reading the disc TOC.

Owain

Reply to
spuorgelgoog

No such thing, even the direct drive Technics SP10 took about 3" of groove to start to 33 rpm. The BBC work horse RP2/1 based on the Garrard 301 that was motored up and down to drive the platter took, IIRC, 2/3rds of a revolution to spin up or about 1 1/2 seconds. Made hitting cues to 1/4 second accuracy a skill and wowed starts were seriously frowned upon.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

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