Tracing mains water pipe in ground ??

I was very skeptical when I first tried it - under instruction - but once I found it worked I just used it. It isn't necessary to believe in it, you just follow a few simple steps and it does the job for you.

All kinds of people do it; it is very common to see people in the construction and water industries dowsing for buried pipes and other services. These people don't necessarily believe in it, or understand why it works. They just do it.

I strongly dislike the implications some people make of a paranormal involvement. I think that's just hokum. I detest people who try to make money out of it, when it is a very straightforward and incredibly cheap aid to finding buried services.

As a professional engineer I think there is probably a simple explanation of how it works based on the law of physics, but the electromagnetic forces involved are probably so small that they are very difficult to measure. It is quite possible that the intrusion of measuring equipment would completely overpower or negate the small forces involved.

When you learn the technique, and it works for you, there is a real sense of wonder when the crossed rods suddenly go parallel as you walk over a buried pipeline or cable. Walk backwards and the rods cross again. Walk forward, and keep walking, and they uncross and recross. There's nothing you can do yourself to make this happen.

Something is doing it, but IMHO it almost certainly isn't paranormal. As I said, I think it's probably just some physics that is not yet fully understood.

To me, all that matters is that it works.

Reply to
Bruce
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And I will make the same offer if the OP is near Buckinghamshire.

Reply to
Bruce

And very inaccurate.

If there is enough force to move a bit of bent metal it can be measured.

Of course there is.. all you need to do is slightly tilt the wrist. When I played (I was ten) at dousing they crossed when you thought there was something there BTW.

Its is well understood. There is no better chance of it working than guessing. That means it doesn't work.

I bet that if I let you try and find some old cables you couldn't.

Reply to
dennis

But apparently it only does so when not under rigorously controlled scientific condtitions?

David

Reply to
Lobster

Strange experience - I find myself agreeing with eveything Dennis has said.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

or through your head!

Robert

Reply to
RobertL

As a pro-dowsing participant in this thread, can you give an idea of how big a pipe needs to be and how near to ground level for you to find it? I have used dowsing rods years ago and believe from experience that they work - but I don't know how small a pipe they can be used to locate (in the hands of a regular user). From my experience, I would not have expected to find a mains feed plastic 22mm pipe to a single house buried a foot down for instance.

To the OP - I had some leak detection work done recently (insurance covered) and the guy who did this explained how they find a leak such as yours. Basically they hook up a pressurised cylinder to the mains somewhere and wait for it to push the water out of the leak point. As soon as the gas starts to leak, they can detect the exact spot using gas detection kit (sniffing at ground level).

Phil

Reply to
TheScullster

Spendthrift! What's wrong with old coathangers? They breed in wardrobes and cost nothing. ;-)

Tim

Reply to
Tim Downie

I have plotted the line of a 22mm alkathene water pipe that was buried to a greater depth - it varied from 450 to 600mm approximately. It wasn't too difficult except where it crossed other buried services.

My greatest successes were with buried live cables. They were relatively easy to find. A buried telephone cable was beyond my ability (or that of the technique) to find.

Reply to
Bruce

As far as dowsing is concerned, you're both armchair experts. It would therefore be surprising if you didn't agree.

If I lived closer to the Medway towns I would gladly show you the technique, then you could judge for yourself. It's not difficult to learn, and I think the best dowsers are probably sceptics like me who strenuously refuse to believe in the paranormal, but are objective enough to recognise that it works.

Unfortunately, the people who try to give it a (non-existent) paranormal dimension have given dowsing a bad name.

Reply to
Bruce

Is this just for metal pipes and plastic pipes with a tracer wire, or does it work with plastic pipes without a wire but full of water?

Reply to
Chris Hogg

To find water underground, you can't beat a set of dowsing rods. I've actually witnessed a bloke with a couple of bent welding rods, find an underground piped burn and the track of a sewer pipe.

I don't know how it works, but after seeing it work with my own eyes, I was amazed.

Reply to
BigWallop

So why don't you take Randi's $1 million? Nearly as much in GBP as Fred Goodwins pension.

"Paranormal is a general term that describes unusual experiences that lack a scientific explanation, or phenomena alleged to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure."

At least thats how I see it, nothing to do with ghosts, talking to dead people etc.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Because there is no paranormal content! Randi wants proof of the paranormal, which I definitely don't believe in, so his money is under no threat from me.

Besides, the proposed "challenge" looks to me as though it is completely unsuited to dowsing. It's just a waste of everyone's time.

Either way, I couldn't give a toss about how dowsing works. The only thing that matters is that it does. End of.

Reply to
Bruce

I would be amazed as there is underground water everywhere (well almost in the UK). These rods can tell the difference between chlorinated water and fresh water it would appear.

That's the trouble with dowsing.. along he comes and says drill there and someone drills down and guess what, they find water. I could come along and say drill 20 feet away and guess what, they would find water.

Reply to
dennis

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

You don't understand what the word means. Paranormal simply means any event without scientific explanation. From 'para' which means beyond or past. Dowsing is a paranormal event.

Sound like a cop out to me.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

On the contrary, I use the standard definition in the Oxford dictionary:

paranormal

"supposedly beyond the scope of normal scientific understanding."

Electromagnetic force is not beyond the scope of normal scientific understanding.

How does your electric drill rotate? You mean you don't understand?

Well it would, wouldn't it. After all, you don't believe in climate change, as if it is a belief that you can choose to accept or not.

Reply to
Bruce

IF dowsing works on that basis, then any electromagnetic force, no matter how small could be measured. Since it can't the event is beyond the scope of normal scientific understanding.

Unless dowsing works by some special, magic, electromagnetic forces that can't be measured, because measuring it causes it to vanish?

The electromagnetic force used by a drill can easily be measured.

Wow! An ad hominem argument that is also completely irrelevent!

If you claim specific abilities, they should stand up to being examined. The Randi Challenge is entirely fair "Applicant must state clearly in advance, and applicant and JREF will agree upon, what powers and/or abilities will be demonstrated, the limits of the proposed demonstration (so far as time, location and other variables are concerned) and what will constitute both a positive and a negative result".

If you claim the ability to dowse you can take the money. If your supposed abilities can't stand up to a simple test it's a cop out.

BTW. I do believe in climate change, its been going on for thousands of years. I don't believe its man made.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home" saying something like:

My neighbour could have done with you. The water table here is a mere yard below the surface, this time of year. Two months ago the neighbour had a borehole drilled and managed to find nothing, another bloke drilled a new hole twenty feet away and found plenty.

I've got a fountainous borehole round the back that I never use - pity I couldn't sell him it.

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

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