Totally OT BBC PC rant.

[dennis]

What's this then, posting as geoff but from your TNP account by error?

[Man at B&Q]

Why don't you engage your brain and read properly, instead of posting such ill-informed crap?

MBQ

[Man at B&Q]

83p$ja0$ [e-mail]...

The serious damage was already done *before* the impact with the tyre wall. The impact with the tyre wall was negligible compared to the damege already done.

No one died in this incident.

If he fell because he'd been hit on the head, by a rock dislodged by a fellow climber, that caused serious head injury, and the fall was otherwise surviveable, then yes the cause of the brain injury needs to be looked at separately.

The driver did not die. He did not suffer head injury due to decelleration.

MBQ

[Mike P]

He didn't. The doc explained that when knocked unconcious, there's some sort of reaction that occurs which extends the ankles. The braking force was merely that of his foot resting on the pedals. It appeared to lock and unlock as he also had his foot on the throttle.

- the tyres can

There is no ABS on an F1 car. The impression that was given was simply the car pushing against the brakes with it's engine. The in car telemetry showed he was braking and accelerating at the same time. Clearly not the actions of a concious driver heading towards a wall.

It may be he couldn't brake effectively or simply had his

Indeed. All the damage sustained was from the debris impact to Massa's head. The impact with the tyre wall was pretty much a "nothing" accident in F1 terms, and had he not been hit by the debris, he'd have got out and walked away. In May, Tony Kanaan hit the Indianapolis wall at 220mph. It's concrete. He bounced off and walked away.

Mike P

[Mike P]

Have you ever seen how far a normal road car spring flies when it's released from it's mountings without proper spring clamps? A very, very long way. A much more powerful spring as on the Brawn car, under pressure will pop out at an alarming rate.

FWIW, telemetry shows Massa was doing 172 mph (not kph) when he hit the 900g spring. Even if the spring was stationary, that's going to hurt. A lot.

Mike P

[Mark]

I put it down to speculation before the real cause of the incident was known.

[dennis]

How is that relevant?

Ahh, another expert in crash injuries to someone who already has a broken skull and a broken crash helmet.

Would you care to post the evidence that you have that shows what injuries occur when someone with a broken skull then crashes a car?

I do like the way you and others assume that a man with a broken skull and a broken crash helmet can drive into a tyre wall and not suffer any more injuries.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Tends to be more 'glancinng' at indy.

Somwehere I worked out the deceleration of a tyre wall from various speeds, and a concrete wall too.

Last injury from a head on I can remember was Shumacher at silverstone. Bounced across the gravel at serious speed and broke a leg IIRC.

the reason they abandoned high speed gravel traps..

[F]

But it's not going to lose 170kph and gain 50kph in the opposite direction within 4 seconds unless it hits something, which it didn't as it bounced down the track on the racing line.

The figures I used were those used by John Watson and, as you point out, like the rest of his statement, they were wrong.

Without any doubt.

[The Natural Philosopher]

fronm a car that was also doing about 170mph when the spring left it, in te same direction.

Sure it poppeed out nicely, but the load on those is purely transverse..they lie across the top IIRC of the gearbox.

So there wouldn't have been much if any momentum gain in the cars' direction, and they are less lightly loaded than you think, the cars don't weigh a lot, although that one would have been under fairly heavy downforce, which is probably why it broke at the top speed part of the circuit. Not sure what the frame rate is, but if its 25fps it looked like it was doing, relative to teh car, between 60 and 125 fps relative to the car. so 50-100 mph maybe.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Doesnt wash. The real cause of the accident was known during teh race.

This was reported the NEXT DAY on News24.

[Jules]

Move. I just get told I'm in the wrong country to see any of the story :)

[F]

The hare when the car Eddie Irvine was driving hit it.

[PeterC]

Or whatever - the marks alternated dark - light, so something must have stopped the wheels locking as the driver couldn't have done so under the circumstances.

[Mike Lewis]

What marks. If there is ABS the wheels don't lock so leave no marks.

[The Natural Philosopher]

no.. it was a sports car IIRC. Not F1

Cant find any references now..long time ago anyway.

[Duncan Wood]

They don't need to lock to leave marks, they need to be slipping wrt the road surface, which is the point at which you get peak braking. But most of the marks you see are just locked wheels skipping over the surface.

[Steve Firth]

In the annals of talking complete and utter shit the above must rank as a prime exhibit of stupidity.

[Steve Firth]

Nor did your cack statement that it "Did zero damage to the driver."

[Steve Firth]

No he hasn't. You clearly stated there was no damage to the driver, complete and utter shit.

You could at least have had the courage to admit that you were wrong, but no you continue to spout shit in an attempt to cover up. Pathetic.