TOT - "Community solar farm"?

I'm currently fighting a 20 acre solar farm on green belt land which is also a Special Landscape Area.

The solar farm company is talking about an "exciting new model we are pursuing for community solar schemes"

"In this model, the community is offered the opportunity to own and control the scheme. This removes costs from the process and allows the project to generate significant surplus profits which can be reinvested in local good schemes. We estimate there will be £25-50,000 available every year."

Sounds like snake oil. Does anybody know what they're talking about? Does anybody have some good planning objections I can use against this community stuff and the original scheme.

Another Dave

Reply to
Another Dave
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it means they know they have to bribe the locals

NT

Reply to
meow2222

What is the land designated as? I think open land can only become a cemetery. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

AKA, there is a pot of development (AKA subsidy) cash that we wish to dip into. ISTR that there is some money floating about for "community" renewable energy schemes.

So go looking for it. Get *full* details on how they come up with those figures. That is a *very* large spread, why? What assumptions are being made, from how much the sun is supposed to shine, to how efficient the panels are, via the running and maintenance costs. Cross check everything against independent sources for the data. If a source comes via the solar company, check that source is consistent with other sources of the same/similar data.

You'll probably find all manner of inconsistencies or optimistic assumptions. If the data say the sunshines on average between 4 and

10 hours/day dependant on season guess which figure they'll choose and fact they'll ignore. Start a website or blog and post all these inconsistencies there along with asking the company to clarify/correct them. Have a few posters for the site/blog in the local shops/noticeboards etc.

Google Sites is free and good enough for this, has basic blog.

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A google on solar community brings up a number of existing schemes, they appear to be co-op's of some sort. Where the capital for the installations comes from seems a bit vague other than people in the community being "investors" in the co-ops.

One of the hits was also a company selling community schemes, but along the "rent 'a roof" lines. ie the panels etc are installed for free but the installer keeps the FiTs for the first 20 years. After those 20 years ownership is transferred with panels supposedly still working at 80% of their new level. This makes the assumption that FiTs will still exist after the 20 years and that the system still works...

Just dig and cross check the details, openly publish your findings, publicly ask the questions (and post the replies) remembering to check the answers, post the contradictions/new inconsistencies and ask more questions.

Part of the object of all this (hard) work is to strip the spin and gloss from the companies material revealing the facts. Many people will take what they are presented with as simple fact and not spin and gloss on some carefully selected facts and figures. Once it's pointed out their view on the company/scheme won't be so dazzled by the estimated promise of 50k for the community.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Surely not?

Just make sure there is a guaranteed minimum annual payment to the community linked to the RPI (or other suitable inflation index). Payable in advance not in arrears if annual, less critical if paid monthly. You can just see the company going bust just before they have to cough up to the community, any pheonix company won't have the same obligation(s)...

A sensible amount would be their minimum estimate. But check their calculations and ensure it is a minimum and that it will go up if the plant does actually perform well. Check the accounts or link the payment to amount of metered power generated, ie the community gets some fraction of the unit cost paid to the company. Either in addition to the minimum or not until the minimum has been reached.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

I would expect there to be a local government planning department document which describes what planning applications should be approved. I would suggest reading this document to see if there are any rules/guidelines that are being contravened. There should be a statement as to what is allowed in a 'Special Landscape Area'.

You can make a much stronger case if you can say the proposal contravenes rule xyz rather than writing what could be considered as a personal opinion.

Reply to
Michael Chare

A local councillor screwed up an app for a windfarm by claiming it wasn't BIG enough and didn't make best use of the available space.

It was sized to maximise FiTS, not electricity production ;-)

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Yep, make sure they are following the rules properly even when it appears that you could be promoting the scheme. Pity this is a solar PV farm, it doesn't attract some of the tricky problems like flicker or infra-sound that wind farms do.

The location of the suns reflection from the panels at any time of day/year should be a good one. I'd not want that shining onto my home (melted Mercedes wasn't it?). Or into the eyes of drivers along any road.

Wild life impact assesments: Ground nesting birds, survey needs to be done when they are there (yes they will try to do that late summer/autumn), any newts, bats, endangered species, remember some are migratory... The more blocks they have to climb over and report in detail the more money they have to spend.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

If you are referring to the car affected by the building in London, I believe it was a Jaguar.

Reply to
Davey

We have a several local community solar arrays. eg

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The are all on roofs of stuff like schools./community centres. The get their money from the FIT payment plus they sell electricity generated to the building user for about 1/3 the going rate for mains electricity. So there is a significant saving for the building user.

ISTR there were lots of legal/ contractural problems.

Reply to
harryagain

But it was nothing to do with solar panels.

Reply to
harryagain

What drivel!

Reply to
harryagain

It is a standard ploy to buy off the locals with a tiny fraction of the huge profits that the developer hopes to make. There are similar schemes for new build development of houses and the like.

The main line of attack should be along the lines that the installation of solar PV at UK latitudes is an expensive exercise in futility. We don't have a summer aircon load and in winter the things output is very limited by the very low sun and short days (although its efficiency when cold is better). Go through their design assumptions and claims with a fine tooth comb and a reference book on solar power.

They always are! The companies set out to farm the grants and renewable subsidies any electricity generated is a mere side effect of the scheme.

But make sure that your objections are well founded - it looks like Durham Tees Valley Airport (formerly Teesside aka Middleton St George MSG) could be in big trouble with its objection to a nearby wind power scheme at Middlesbrough's Riverside Stadium which has backfired.

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and

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In fact FAA and other experts have come back this week and said that MSGs objections are bollocks(TM) and the developers are now suing the airport for lost profits as a result of their delaying tactics.

No online link available for the latest news of the judgement that I can find but it is in the local paper and should be online shortly.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. MSG is on its last legs anyway with hardly any useful flights to anywhere and car parking charges comparable with some of the cheaper flight ticket prices. The renaming was to trick tourists into thinking it was near Durham...

Reply to
Martin Brown

I'm the OP.

Many thanks to all who replied - the info was very useful and I'll pass it along to the 16-strong action committee (originally set up to fight a turbine in the next field).

The land is farm land and around here the only farming is dairy farming which is in a slump at the moment. Even so I don't regard supporting farmers (even the smallest farm still sells for at least £3/4 million) as a reason for these schemes. The number of agricultural worker's residences applied for is amazing as is their requirement for 4-bedroom detached houses with a double garage in the middle of the nicest countryside.

Another Dave

Reply to
Another Dave

Agreed, it was reflections off a curved building's glass windows, which pointed the sun's rays downwards and concentrated them at one spot, an unlikely scenario with a solar farm. I hate the sight of solar farms in the country, but objections made must be accurate to be effective. Do solar farms reflect sunlight at near-horizontal angles?

Reply to
Davey

Foolish to stop them isnt it?

Reply to
meow2222

Why? Flat plates of glass be they windows or solar panels will reflect the suns rays. It wouldn't take many panels aligned just slighly convergent to produce a focus, possibly some considerable distance away.

Well the panels are mounted at angle so at some elevation of the sun yes they will. Asking the question about the track of any reflected sun light at any time of day/year is valid. Similarly asking about any foci(*) or what they are proposing to do to ensure that no foci ever exist or if they do what their liabilty is is also valid. Bearing in mind that it may take a considerable time for a focus to become apparent.

(*) With lots of panels at slighly different alignments there is the possibilty of many simultaneous points of focus. Points of focus that will also change as the sun moves across the sky and the angle of incidence changes.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Are they really THAT much worse than acres of polytunnel or high-density chicken rearing sheds?

Reply to
Adrian

No but they could dazzle aircraft.

Reply to
dennis

They could put the panels on top of chicken sheds and have the smell too.

Reply to
dennis

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