Top vs Bottom posting

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Because it is much easier to follow the flow of the conversation. This may not matter if you reply to a single author post, but if you top post a reply to a layered post with multiple authors I have to scroll down to the bottom to find out what you might be responding to. Your comment will be out of sync in the conversation.

And you have thus hit upon another frequent bugbear, an inability to trim that which is not relevant. My server insists I do this and will not post messages that do not contain sufficient new content. As for not being bothered, I not infrequently refrain from giving advise to gratuitous top posters when they ask for it and I am in a position to give it. Much like I might ignore someone in the street if they were rude to me.

It simply makes it hard to follow the conversation since it is not in a sensible order.
Peter
--
Peter Ashby
School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland
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What is sensible?
It is?
dave
An example of what?

--
dave @ stejonda

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That's more like not speaking to some-one who asks for help because they don't wear the "right" sort of clothes. Or racsim. Chill out....
Suz
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wrote:

I'll let others do that - my preference is to mix as follows.

I prefer for messages to be chopped into logical sections (as I am doing here), with responses to each section immediately following the query or issue. I find it much easier to follow than a long message with a long reply (top or bottom).
The other "advantage" is that whole sections of redundant information can be deleted from the reply.

It's personal preference stuff, mostly. Some people prefer net curtains, others hate them. Same with blinds and so on.
If a message is particularly long then it can take a while to download for people using a modem.

No need. You'll never get a consensus on posting preferences. We each like our own particular style, and everyone else's is considered bad.
PoP
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Except that top posting is expressly forbidden by the group's charter. It isn't a matter of personal preference with both sides being equal, but a case of disregarding or obeying the rules.
Christian.
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Suz wrote:

Quite right. On usenet, anything that doesn't get your account suspended, goes.

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PoP wrote:

I *hate* net curtains, especially ones owned by top-posters.
--
Grunff


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Please search on google -- it isn't on-topic here. However, top and bottom posting are equally wrong. You quote each point in the posting you are following up, and place your response after that quoted text. You cut as much as you can from the from the posting you are following up -- you only include just enough so readers know which point you are following up. This is just such an example.

People get worked up about all sorts of things. I actually use top-posting as a good indicator of how naive the poster is, and as such find it remarkably useful. If I don't have time to read all the followups to a posting, I can quickly skip all the top- posted ones without reading them -- rarely do they have much valuable content as they never come from experienced contributors. Experienced contributors tend to know how to use usenet correctly and effectively.
--
Andrew Gabriel

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Perfect. Absolutely perfect - and a system I also use. It rarely lets me down.
--
Graeme

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In Dave typed: : Can someone explain why "bottom posting" is considered better than : "top posting"... : : I far prefer posts at the top, simply because the new information can : be read easily and then, if it looks interesting, I can scroll : through the history if I haven't been following the thread. If people : post at the bottom I frequently don't bother scrolling down to read : it. Posting at the bottom would be OK if people didn't insist on : quoting all that's gone before. : : Also, why do some people get so worked up about it? Does it cause : problems with some news readers? - it seems OK with Outlook Express : and that's freely available. : (retires to fall-out shelter.....)
-- Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes with this: http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix
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I'm definitely with the bottom-posters for all the reasons stated by others; my only *slight* leaning towards the top posters is the fact that I usually end up reading usenet on Google (because my ISP's newsfeed is so crap), which only displays the first 'X' lines of any long posts and forces you to click another link to display the full message. A right PITA.
But again, as others have said, if people trimmed their reply posts properly and quoted only the necessary preceding context, in 90% of cases such messages wouldn't be too long for Google...
David
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What
What is
What is so
What is so good
What is so good about
What is so good about bottom-
What is so good about bottom- posting?
Edwin.
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Thanks to all. I've had lots of help from people in this newsgroup so if the majority dislike top-posting I'm happy to change my natural tendency. There are too many overlapping threads to comment/reply to each one so here's an attempt at a summary.
To my mind the best response is from The Natural Philosopher:

ny
concrete <<confrontational bit deleted>.
I too have been using newsgroups in various forms since before the www (probably 18+ years), in my professional use (a V large IT organisation) it seems that the minority bottom post, the majority mingle or top post and AFAIK there's never been a war of words.
The real problem seems to be that people quote far more than they need to in public newsgroups (so the useful bit gets buried and download times are extended). If only the bare minimum were quoted the newsgroup would download faster, the info would be easier to read and there would be less waste storage.
Just a thought..... plainly mixed top/bottom isn't going to work, wouldn't it all actually be more logical for everyone to top-post? The fresh info would then be instantly visible and anyone that wants to see the history can start reading from the bottom.
Grunff said that top posting was "lazy", 'don't see where laziness comes in to it.
Christian McArdle mentioned a "charter" for the group - I hadn't heard of this before, where is it?
-- Dave S (The email account is a dummy for anti-spam purposes, please reply via the newsgroup) _________________
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Whilst I was sure I had read the charter for uk.d-i-y a year or so ago, I can no longer find it.
They are normally all pretty similar and say you mustn't top post, use a signature more than 4 lines, quote the entire previous post, cross post to more than 6 groups or post advertising unless of a very specific nature designed to appeal specifically to the group or thread in question.
Christian.
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Christian McArdle wrote:

No charter as such: <URL:http://www.usenet.org.uk/uk.d-i-y.html
But the faq says to follow netiquette, and explicitly requests posters to snip: <URL:http://diyfaq.org.uk/netiquette.html
--
Grunff


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No, because as various people have demonstrated the flow will not be logical. And it will also make it very difficult to interleave and if nobody did that telling what was being replied to would be difficult leading to all sorts of misunderstandings. I trust you have been around usenet long enough to know what misunderstandings can lead to?

Because in some newsreaders (OE in particular I'm told) the cursor is placed at the top by default. So to bottom post or snip and interleave requires more work than to simply start typing. In that context it is lazy. If I am trying to talk to someone and they can't be bothered to turn around and not mumble I might not bother any more. Similarly with top posters.
Peter
--
Peter Ashby
School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland
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Peter Ashby wrote:

Lesson 1: How to use a keyboard for OE users ;-)
To move to the end of the message: Hold CTRL press END
There..... that was not so bad was it?
(having said that you will want to scroll through the message to snip all the bits that need removing!)
--
Cheers,

John.

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On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:34:53 +0100, Peter Ashby wrote:
<snip>

Of course, the counter argument to that is that the cursor is at the top so that the poster can move down through the post to which he's replying snipping and interleaving as necessary.
I just don't buy the argument that the cursor's at the top so it's ok to top post.
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I don't buy the argument that you should top post because everyone else does. As my mother used to say "If everyone else stuck their head in the fire..." Or consider the American attitude to male circumcision. Just because a bunch of people do it, the rest follow like sheep.
The issue should be legibility not tradition. Not all of the bottom posters or snippers/interleavers on this group are the most easy to follow. Good communication, not good form.
Suzanne
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Dave wrote:

Laziness is not bothering to snip the post, leaving only the relevant bit, and posting a reply to that one bit.
See my second reply to this post.
--
Grunff


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