Toilet FAQ?

[Abso]

Does anyone know the location of an online resource I can use to get my head around how the internals of a toilet flush should work?

It's just that mine is becoming reluctant to flush, despite the float valve aparently working fine (the cistern fills). One thing which might cause it is that the washer on the actuator attached to the handle is lifting (I think it should stay in place sealing the top of the lower chamber). Would this cause reluctant flushing?

Shit description, I know, trouble is I know so little about what the bits are called that I'm struggling to describe it.

[John Flax]

Try Google with: toilet cistern diaphragm

or look at:

scroll to the bottom of this one!

The Mid-Kent quotation of "Only £128.86 includes materials and vat"

household/setprice/toilet.htm should give you the courage to have a go.

When I had this problem (about 15 years ago) I made a temporary diaphragm from a piece of stiffish polythene. I come across the replacement from time to time.

I believe the size and shape of the diaphragm can vary.

Removing the water from the bottom of the cistern can be a pain. I used a syphon tube intended for beer/wine making. Any water left in the bottom of the cistern will wet her lovely new bathroom carpet, so be warned!

[Abso]

That's really helpful, thanks. I'm now better able to describe the washer I was talking about above. It sits on the actuator linking the handle to the diaphragm carrier and seals the point at which the actuator penetrates the flush chamber. As the handle is operated and the actuator rises, the washer (which is stuck on the actuator) rises with it, so that some of the diaphragm's action is wasted by water leaking out of the top of the flush chamber through the hole. Is this normal, or should the washer remain seated around the hole, ie. slide down over the actuator shaft? Could this be an alternative reason for flushing problems?

[Ben Blaney]

^^^^

:-)

[R P McMurphy]

[John]

The link describes the type that is common in the USA and being introduced in the UK now.

I guess the one being described is a siphon cistern which is somewhat different

[Mike Ring]

"John" wrote in news:9DURa.484$ [e-mail]:

That's right, and I was going to suggest to the OP that if anything needs renewing, fit a fluidmaster conversion.

I did recently and it's the dogs; dumps the tank in about half the time and refills - quietly - in well under half the time.

20 ish squid from B&Q

mike r

[Abso]

Sounds interesting, I'll check it out.

[Abso]

Little things... ;o)

[John Stumbles]

---8 > Try Google with: toilet cistern diaphragm

I

I know what you mean but unless it's an enormously sloppy fit* then as long as the diaphragm is OK the sheer volume of water being forced up the pipe should be such that a little bit coming out of that coupling hole won't make any significant difference.

hth

-- John Stumbles

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• looong time ago in Tech one of our lecturers' term for this sort of thing was 'fitting like a turd in a shirt sleeve'. Just thought you'd like to know that ;-)

[John Stumbles]

---8 > ... I was going to suggest to the OP that if anything needs

The flapper-type flush valve itself has practically nothing to it so all there is to replace would be the big washer. The £20 B&Q kit includes a Fluidmaster bottom entry float valve which you may or may not want. The flush valve mechanism makes up for being simple by being a bit heavy to use - it needs quite a push on the button to operate, unlike the vastly complicated push-button flush valves you get with newer (especially continental made) close coupled cisterns where the push button operates with a feather touch. I'd be inclinded to use the flapper valve with an existing lever handle and bodg^H^H^H^Hengineer a springy extension to the arm inside the cistern which the lever operates to get a suitable action to work the valve - that way you'd get a very light lever action, instead of a very heavy push button one.

OTOH Grahams do a (forget the make) push button operated valve where the button mechanism is on a flexible linkage (like bike brake/gear cables, but plastic) and this (a) does have a light action (b) only costs about £12. Even adding say £5 for a bottom entry equilibrium float valve that's cheaper than the inferior (IMO) Fluidmaster kit. It also has two flush volumes (for 'liquids' and 'solids')

-- John Stumbles

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-+ Copyright (c) Sirius Cybernetics Corporation (formerly Microsoft)

[Mike Ring]

Mine isn't - it's really light , the only problem was it didnt quite fit the hole in the cistern and required a little bo.. engineering

mike r

[John Stumbles]

---8 > OTOH Grahams do a (forget the make) push button operated valve where the

rootle around in the van)

[ducks]

:-)

-- John Stumbles

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-+ Bob the builder / it'll cost yer Bob the builder / loadsa dosh

[Abso]

Ideal. Perhaps you can tell me whether the yellow slider should be clipped on so that the scooped handle on it makes a smiley face or a sad face when viewed with the unit in its normal orientation? It's just that it had become detached in transit and the instructions and website aren't clear on this. Maybe it makes no difference.

Ta.

[Mike Ring]

"Abso" wrote in news:bfb6b7$trc$ [e-mail]:

B&Q do the whole kit for about that, but I go on Wednesday for me 10% off.

helluva job to find doesn't own up to havong them, a general google got nowhere.

Thanks for the recommendation, it was £12.98 from

And where were all you lot two weeks ago, then?

mike r

[John Stumbles]

Sad

I'd think it makes no difference though - looks as if the slider just opens or closes that hole.

-- John Stumbles

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[Abso]

I bought the fluidmaster float valve there today for £8.33 (bargain), but didn't see the complete kits although I was looking for them.

Their website is well hidden. I only found it indirectly (via another site which had come up in a Google-search).

Erm.. can't remember - why, what happened?

[Mike Ring]

"Abso" wrote in news:bfbp8k$4n9$ [e-mail]:

Yep, I found the website, but I can't find multiflush in the pesky website

I was looking to upgrade me bog, and didn't know about multiquick.

Still, if this thread hadn't occurred I would have been well happy with fluidmaster - (stick with that thought,)

mike r

[Mike Ring]

"Abso" wrote in news:bfboug$o9h$ [e-mail]:

Wow

Shoulda gotta fluidmaster Nyaah nyaah (although I had to butcher my button to get it in the orifice

Wow

Shoulda gotta fluidmaster (Nyaah nyahh) though I had to butcher the button to get it in the orifice. I certainly didnit want to risk attacking the ceramic cistern!

I got more of a flood, the builder gorillas had really graunched it down and folded the doughnut, and seepage had stuck it to the metal bit so I thought it was one unit>

A good plumbers merchant - I don't know if there's an industry standard, my man just said "Ideal, righto, 2 and a half squid" and gave me an enormously fat and sassy one, which unfortunately I had to pull down more than I wanted to to reach the pipework. ISTM it should seal with little more than it's own weight, but tell *that* to a builder

m r

[John Stumbles]

It's definitely available separately - I've had 2 from Grahams, and the OP's bought one there as well.

-- John Stumbles

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