Tiling for a wall mounted bog pan and a wall mounted tap

[Andy Hall]

I'm at the detailed planning stage for my cloakroom remodeling project.

The bog will be a wall mounted pan on a Grohe frame panelled in front and I am thinking about the panelling, mounting and tiling arrangements.

Considering loading issues, I want to consider materials and techniques carefully.

If this were a floor mount, I would be tiling underneath and fitting the pan on top - simple enough.

For a wall mount pan, I am wondering whether to go for ply or plasterboard (ply seems to make more sense as less risk of crushing) and again whether to tile behind or up to the pan. For neatness, I am thinking about behind the pan, but again wonder about crushing. I suppose that there is not a lot of difference conceptually to placing a floor standing pan on tiles.. Or is there?

I am going for a wall mounted tap for the basin

This does not have the plate escutcheon and so I will need to cut tiles carefully to fit.

I have an electric disk type tile saw for cutting straight pieces.

The question is how to cut the curved shapes or drilled holes for the tap.

I want to try to avoid cutting in little bits of tile and spoiling the natural continuity. Depending on the tiles selected, this may mean drilling large holes (about 50-55mm) or arranging the tiling to have a join along the centre line of the tap and cutting in from the edge.

Is there a suitable drilling method to achieve this?

Is there a suitable edge/corner cutting method - e.g. something like a scroll saw that will cut tiles?

[DJC]

Mine was done with ply, then tiled behind the pan. Assuming the tiles are fixed solid bed and the bolts on the pan tightened properly there should be an even load on the wall/pan area. I think I have seen in the Grohe/Gerberit catalogue something that looked like a interface pad/gasket that would go between pan and tile, but mine seems to be ok without.

drill hole in tile, put blade through hole...

[Bolted]

Ply and tile behind the pan. As another poster mentioned, most wall mount bogs have an optional pad to eliminate squeaks.

found were at

- fine site, not much English communications were a bit cranky but they came through fine with stereotypical efficiency, excellent packaging etc. The wall-mounted V&B loo alone was about half the cost in the UK, including the shipping.

Hole saw - presuming you are using porcelain you need a diamond one. The Armeg screwfix ones work fine, or there are cheaper chinese non-guided versions around.

Or align the holes along tile joints and nibble away with a wetsaw. Looks less neat though, and forces the rest of your tiling to comply with those spacings.

[Andy Hall]

OK. Will check into that

Yes, that would do it. Thanks for these two suggestions.

[Andy Hall]

OK. Thanks for the confirmation.

This was one of the suppliers I found. It seems that their Axor prices are 1:2 compared with UK as well. As you say, an easy to use site, and I don't have a particular problem in reading German.

I looked at V&B and their stuff is certainly good. Unfortunately I couldn't find the kind of design I wanted.

I guess you mean the diamond core drills?

Yes, that was what I was trying to avoid if I could.

[Bolted]

If you prefer to call it that. A carbide holesaw will do ordinary ceramic and is much cheaper

porcelain or stone you'll need diamond, like these

for a one-off job, though, and I couldn't find anywhere that rents them. If you are in London-ish I could do them for you if you bring the tiles round.

These are much much cheaper:

they don't have a guide, so you need to improvise something like a piece of mdf with a hole the size of the outer diameter of the bit to keep it on track at the start of the cut. For a one-off job, that's probably the way to go.

You need to keep all of these diamond thingys wet and cool. I did them in a water bath under my pillar drill, which worked fantastically well and got loads of wear of the bits (wore one bit out, but it must have done 50 or so holes in some bloody tough porcelain). If you do it after tiling rather than before you have to keep spraying the wall/floor around the cut and it is difficult by doing that to keep the temp down below the level at which the diamond substrate melts and the drill stops working for good.

[Andy Hall]

Thanks very much for the offer, unfortunately I'm not though.

I am going to be doing two additional bathroom jobs over the next couple of years, so amortising the cost and it's not that bad.

I have a drill press, so was thinking that a water bath would be a way to do the job. Certainly this seems a better approach than attempting the job in situ.

Thanks for all your thoughts

[Bolted]

That's one of them, but you need also need the arbour and one of the pointy diamond bits to make the hole for the arbour's guide (8mm, I think, but check on the armeg website). So it adds up....

I think the one you were pointing at is going to be too big, though - I'd imagine that you will want a hole that is about 25mm, or just a little bit bigger than the wall-plate elbow (or whatever)'s female bit. Then the little round escutcheons that you do have with those taps go over the tile and hide the hole.

I got an under-the-bed plastic storage thing from a pound shop, and used a bit of ply on the bottom of it to stop punctures and to support the tile well - if you don't have even support underneath porcelain will sometimes crack with the pressure.

Quite a satisfying job, ten seconds of so of hissing, and such a perfect neat hole.

[John Rumm]

You may get a slightly higher point load at the base of the pan due to its leverage effect, but I can't see it being much of an issue as long as the substrate is absolutely rigid and the tiles are fully bedded on.

You can cut some curves with these - semi circles etc. Mark the required line on the face of the tile, and then cut perpendicular towards it stopping on the line. Move the tile a little to the side and repeat. Eventually the waste piece of tile should have been reduced to a comb like arrangement of "fingers" of tile all stopping on the line. These can now be knocked out and a gentle lateral pass made with the edge of the cutting disc to clean up the curve.

Grit edged tile/hole saws will do it. Much depends on the hardness of the tiles as to how difficult it is. For normal pottery ones the coping saw style tile saws, or grit edged blades for a jigsaw work fine. The corner of a diamond segment blade in a multimaster can also be used to take out a "curve" in a series of short straight cuts.

[Andy Hall]

I was thinking of 18mm ply, but perhaps something thicker should be used?

These are all good ideas, John, thanks. There is a little leeway with the holes. They need to be about 52mm for the mechanical parts of the tap to clear, but the escutcheons for the spout and tap lever are 68mm.

I hadn't thought of the Multimaster, but I know the blade you mean.

I didn't know about grit edged jigsaw blades.

I suspect that a lot will depend on the tiles chosen by SWMBO

[DJC]

Were you not intending to use a Grohe frame? If so the load should be taken by the frame, in which case 18mm ply would surely be sufficient to ensure the layer of tiles remain flat and rigid.

[John Rumm]

With that amount, you may be able to simply chain drill round the periphery of the hole and tidy up with a file. I did this for the pipework entrance to the back of my shower mixer and it worked quite well.

Indeed!

[Andy Hall]

Yes I am going to use a Grohe frame. My natural thought was that

18mm ply ought to be fine - I was just floating this one in case somebody suggested that something more substantial would be needed and had a reason for it.