This was not the living wage idea at all B/Q!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Excellent right wing principle. Just steal what you don't have.

[Fredxxx]

That is the problem. When luxury become necessities for no good reason.

You can get by with a £20 phone, or even a second hand smart phone one of the same value.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Think you've proved often enough that 'community spirit' was never in your agenda.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Many don't even have access to a land line these days. Where is your nearest phone kiosk?

You can get by with rags tied round your feet instead of shoes too. Not quite sure of your point?

[Tim Streater]

His point is that a cheap phone is all you really need, if that.

[Mr Macaw]

Oh for goodness sake. If they don't pay you enough, work elsewhere, or threaten to work elsewhere. You are paid what you are worth. It works the same way as supply and demand for goods.

[Jonno]

Mr Macaw scribbled

WTF would our permanently unemployed village idiot know about work.

[Fredxxx]

Rags are not as effective as shoes. Second hand phones can work as well as new. If that is the best comparison you can make, then I take its ad mission you have lost your argument.

That explains more than you can imagine.

[Jonno]

Chris French scribbled

A few years ago, every village had a hardware/DIY store. Then the sheds arrived and killed them off. Now the sheds are suffering. I wonder if there are parallels to be drawn with the problems the major supermarkets are having. Perhaps there is a place for the small, knowledgeable shopkeeper.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

A cheap phone is as good as the iphone you mentioned?

Your point appears to be that those on the minimum wage should be barely able to feed themselves.

[Tim Streater]

For the purposes for which one might need a phone, perfectly adequate. Everything else is just toy usage.

[Fredxxx]

I was countering your assertion "And 'minimum' wages mean the workers have no spare cash to spend on 'luxuries'".

I regard iphones as unnecessary luxuries though many on MW seem to have them or equivalents. Even I I don't have one but I do have an old smart phone. I have no idea why you think fancy new phones are not luxuries.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Each and every one will have a different idea what a 'luxury' is.

To an older person, spending what limited income they have on heating might be considered a necessity. A younger fit person might consider heating a room to 22C or whatever a luxury.

The same can apply to phones. I saw recently a tradesman who obtained a sig for work done from the customer on his smart phone. So in his case, it wasn't a luxury, but an essential tool of his trade. The same could be said if he's using it as a sat nav, or to order up spare parts, or any one of the numerous things they can do these days.

[Fredxxx]

No, the definition of a luxury is where you are unable to function, in terms of food, shelter, clothing and working.

I cannot believe you would think a new smart phone is the most appropriate method of gaining a signature.

The fact that a signature on a piece of paper is quite typical, even for modern business, destroys your insistence that a new iphone is a luxury.

An old smart phone would be quite capable of doing that, as is mine.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not sure I understand that. Enjoyable but not essential is better.

And it's something which is very fluid. For example, a fridge was once considered a luxury. Most would consider it essential today. And I'm sure you can think of others.

It's obviously how his employer expected it to be done. And the logging of his time. I've no idea if the employer provided the phone, though.

I'm not insisting an iphone is a luxury. You are. And I don't differentiate between an iphone and any other smart phone.

Oh, c'mon. Most wouldn't use secondhand things for work. Especially Apple rubbish which is obsolete so quickly.

[dennis]

A fridge is not an essential. You only have to look at where some of the recent migrants are living to realise they manage quite well without a fridge.

[The Natural Philosopher]

It is an essential now that there are no more 'village shops' that you can walk to and get fresh veg and meat every day.

[tabbypurr]

if only it were that cut & dry.

NT

[John Akers]

Nope, the veg does fine without a fridge and we did fine in the middle of the summer that gets a lot hotter than your summers with a weekly delivery of meat. Sure, it got a bit green just before the new lot showed up, but a couple of times a week would be fine without a fridge in your summers. And you don?t need a village shop anyway, just a supermarket you can walk or drive to.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'm sure rotting kangeroo marinated in rancid koala milk is a delicacy with you. Just accept that most sensible people prefer fresh produce.

And given the thread has become about a smart phone being a luxury, only you could bring driving into the equation.