this scam is worth noting

[Steve Firth]

[snip]

It's TNP, the dope who suggested acrylic filler for sealing car windows. Did you need further proof of his idiocy?

[Jethro]

Funny how they become experts in whatever they want, when it suits them.

[Mike Clarke]

So if they just called you on your landline just call the card company with your mobile instead. Or make another call to someone you know first to confirm that the line is working as it should.

[Jason]

But it looked important enough to pass on to everyone on my address list! I've asked them all to pass it on to everyone they know, because it looks legit, and tells me how import it is for every to know about it.

[Jason]

tl;dr - don't give your CVV to anyone that calls *you*.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Jason saying something like:

And snip.

[Gib Bogle]

Me too.

[Andy Burns]

For a UK land-line that's at least a real risk unless you know how to use the RECALL button, it's not true for mobiles.

[Lobster]

I don't know that I do know how to use the RECALL button.

Are you saying that you can hang up, *get a normal dialling tone*, dial a genuine number, and then get reconnected to the original scammer?

David

[Andy Burns]

Yes (because the scammer can send you a fake dialing tone that you can't distinguish from a real one).

If the answering party hangs-up the call ISN'T cleared, it only clears when the calling party hangs-up, or after several minutes if the calling party doesn't eventually hang-up

So the scammer calls you, you hang up intending to phone your bank directly, but the scammer's call is still active, they hear you hang-up and play you a recording of a dialling tone, they hear you dialling, and play you a recording of a ringing tone, then they say "Thanks for calling XYZ bank fraud dept, how can we help you?"

If the answering party wants to clear a call, you press recall which gives you a real* dialling tone, you then hang up, your phone will then ring+, wait until it stops ringing, now pick up the phone and you can dial as normal.

*You could at this point dial to make a 3-way conference call. +You could pick it back up at this point and the original caller would still be there.

[Mike Barnes]

I really don't think so.

[Mike Barnes]

No need, it would never work anyway. Unless you know otherwise.

[Andy Burns]

Simple enough to test ... phone your landline from your mobile*, answer it, verify the call is put through, hang up the land line, wait a few seconds, pick back up the the landline, verify the call is still live.

*it being a mobile is not significant, merely convenient.

[Andy Burns]

Perhaps there *is* one born every minute, what's you phone number and credit card number Mike?

[Mike Barnes]

Well, yes, obviously. Then what?

[Mike Barnes]

I'm not about to publish my phone number here, for obvious reasons. But I've sent you the information you asked for by e-mail. Please try your best and let us know how far you get.

(Beginning to sound like Jeremy Clarkson here, but that's another story.)

[Graham.]

actually reasonably impressed with the way they handled

prove they are genuine (or prove they are dodgy)",

they were and also to prove I was really me. The

things that would not ring alarm bells. Typically stuff

you tell me the one you use most often?". Then once

from further back than the actual suspect ones so you

(i.e. stuff not yet on a printed statement).

I got a call to my landline 30 seconds after making an on-line purchase using a card that rarely used, so it was pretty obvious what had triggered the call. It was an automated (AVR) system that required me to make DTMF responses, After it asked me for a yes/no/wait_for_an_agent as to whether I had made 4 or 5 previous transactions that were so long ago I could scarily rememberthem. I got fed up with it and I plumbed for the third option and got a human operator to cut to the chase.

The transaction was to Quidco for a cheap mobile phone. Perhaps Quidco is a magnet for fraud.

[Mike Clarke]

Quite easy actually. The line doesn't get cleared down unless the _caller_ hangs up [1]. All the scammer has to do is to keep the line open and play a recording of a dial tone into the line. You pick up your phone, hear the familiar sound of a dial tone and start dialling. The scmmer hears your dialling attempt and turns off the sound until you're finished, plays a recording of a ringing tone for a few seconds and then comes back in with "Hello, MasterCard, XXX speaking, how can I help you?".

[1] Well it will clear down eventually but not until several minutes have elapsed and BT play their nee-naw siren sound down the line after Digital Dorothy has told you to "Please hang up".

[Graham.]

If it was done properly, with recordings of dialtone and ringing tone strategically cued when the called party attempted to resize the line. They would also need to simulate at least one level of the CC companies AVR system, again just using a fixed recording cued with Audacity or similar.

Of course none of this would fool me, I always sent a timed-break recall to end a marketing or other suspect call on my BT line. This leaves them with "Please hold the line", and me with a genuine dialtone.

[Graham.]

Press the recall button on the landline and you get the dialtone back and can make another call* The other party gets "Please hold the line" at intervals.

If you hang up after pressing recall it will ring for a while, when it stops the line will be cleared You can also dial network services at this point so you could do 1471 during a call instead of after it had ended