The "Viking disease"

[Jo Stein]

I thought this was something peculiar to me, and being too shy to ask for help I have suffered it all alone:

Dupuytren's contracture is a non-specific affliction, but primarily > affects: > People of Scandinavian or Northern European ancestry;[3] it has been > called the "Viking disease" or "Celtic hand",

It is not a big problem for me. Maybe someone in this group know about a diy-solution?

[greyridersalso]

A DIY "solution"? Hmm, that'll be an angle grinder then. Get a grip, do what I'm having to do, see your GP, get a referral, get told to wait until it reaches the stage that it affects your "life style" and then rinse and repeat. Allegedly, once I can no longer type, grip, pick my nose, hold a fork, etc, with the affected digits then, and only then, will they perform a simple 'op to correct the matter. Apparantly it returns as well, but I should be dead by then. As for DIY, can't really so what you'd do other than slice through the tendons with a carpet knife, oh, hang on............

[Dave Baker]

Just discovered it starting in my left hand a month or so ago. Turns out it's hereditary and am told my dad (now deceased) had it and had it operated on once it got bad enough which I was previously unaware of. No big deal apparently. You have to wait until it gets fairly pronounced and it's pulling the fingers over and then it's a simple op.

[Terry Fields]

Morbus_dupuytren_fcm.jpg

Bolt cutters? Angle grinder?

More seriously, I have one of these, had it for >20 years. It had got to the point where it was the size of a dried pea, and felt like that e.g. when using a steering-wheel. It was uncomfortable enough that I was contemplating using driving gloves to ease the pressure on it. A colleague who was a GP examined it, and confirmed it was a DC. He advised gently bending the affected finger backwards against the contraction, which made the area very red.

It was about this time I started to get arthritis, in knuckle and toe joints, for which I upped my daily dose of cod- liver oil to the maximum, increased my vitamin C to 2g a day, and took selenium and glucosamine supplements. The redness disappeared from the joints over time, and to my surprise the DC started receding, reaching the current minimum in about 9 months. Twenty years later it's still there, but I never notice its much reduced presence, and I now hardly ever do the stretching exercise.

Beats having one's finger bolt-cuttered off, IMHO.

[Chris Hogg]

Interesting. Having an interest in family history, I thought it would be fun to get my deep ancestry checked via a DNA analysis. Turns out I have Viking ancestry. I also have Dupuytren's contracture on the little finger of my left hand. Nothing serious yet, although the thickened tendon does get bruised and sore occasionally where it is raised above my palm. Didn't know it was a feature of my Viking ancestry though!

[Tim+]

Unless you're up to DIY microsurgery and Z-plasty, not really.

Tim

[Tim+]

"Dave Baker" wrote: > You have to wait until it gets fairly pronounced and it's pulling the fingers over and then it's a simple op.

Hmm, not *that* simple and prone to recurrence.

Tim

[Terry Fields]

Morbus_dupuytren_fcm.jpg

I've got a DC, blood group B (possibly from Siberia), and my family can trace their origins back a thousand years to the York area. I'd be interested in getting my possible Viking ancestry DNA checked out - could you post some details, such as a web page? TIA.

In these days, where we are all regarded as immigrants to the UK and people are referred to as British of descent, it might be an idea to describe onself as British of Viking descent!

[Jo Stein]

Her I found a video about a stuff called Xiaflex:

I may talk to my expensive GP about it, and I am sure he do not recommend any diy-repair.

[polygonum]

point where it was the size of a dried

enough that I was contemplating

examined it, and confirmed it was a

contraction, which made the area very

for which I upped my daily dose of cod-

selenium and glucosamine supplements.

started receding, reaching the

never notice its much reduced

What specifically made you decide to take selenium?

[Terry Fields]

I'd read that arthritic joints had low levels of the stuff, so it might have been a good idea to take some. It certainly improved my vision, which I think is due to some optic-nerve effect that derives from low selenium intake.

[Geoff Pearson]

Why did you ask this in a UK diy group - if you are not in the UK and this is not a diy matter - intriguing? Even so, I have trigger finger in most of my fingers - is this related to DC? Margaret Thatcher had DC - she had the operation.

[Chris Hogg]

their origins back a thousand

ancestry DNA checked out - could you post

referred to as British of

I'm also blood group B; B+ to be more precise.

As to suggesting where you could get your distant ancestry checked, my family on my father's side are Scots, so I initially went for a Y-DNA analysis via ScotlandsDNA,

They do deep ancestry testing, via SNP's (don't ask; try Wikipedia: I also had my mtDNA tested at the same time, to see where my mother's line came from. Not cheap, I may say. Although they identified both my paternal and maternal deep ancestries, I found the reports badly laid out and confusing. Perhaps I'm being fussy (I have a science background, and am used to reports, research papers etc. being laid out in a particular, logical format. I sent them my criticisms, and they may have improved the reports by now). Incidentally, and depending which system of nomenclature you look at, on my father's side my key markers are M258, M253, S142, P109 or on another system, I1d1, although I think the latter has been reclassified to I1a2a. That makes me of Scandinavian origin. On my mother's side I'm J1c5c, (the nomenclature is better standardised for mtDNA), which makes her lineage extend back to the first farmers, possibly arising in Mesopotamia i.e. what is now Iraq. I have blue eyes, and apparently that also links me back to the early farmers in Mesopotamia.

But I'm not sure I'd recommend ScotlandsDNA. There is another organisation, the Scottish DNA project,

which is part of a much wider American based organisation, FamilyTreeDNA, Their analysis is primarily aimed at more recent ancestry, say the last 1000 years, with the possibility of finding DNA links to distant but undiscovered members of your family tree. They test STR's (see the Wiki article above), but I think they also do distant ancestry analysis if requested. The information they provide and their evaluation of your DNA and comparison with other people's DNA on their extensive database is much more thorough than from ScotlandsDNA. But it is American, and the majority of people on their database are American, as one might expect, probably people looking for links back to their European roots. They run surname projects, linking, or trying to link, your DNA and surname to others with the same or similar surnames and DNA. I'm linked into the HoggDNA project, although not much exciting has come of it. IIRC they were cheaper than ScotlandsDNA, but I'm not sure if that would include the deep ancestry test, as, having got mine done by ScotlandsDNA, I wasn't interested in having it done again.

But none of it's cheap! I haven't looked at the prices recently, but expect something in the £100 - £200 range, depending on what you want doing.

Good luck!

[polygonum]

been a good idea to take some. It certainly

derives from low selenium intake.

Thank you.

I asked because my particular area of interest is thyroid in which three of the specific thyroid hormone enzymes (at least) are seleno-proteins. Selenium supplementation is often discussed and there are papers which present evidence for its use in both hypothyroidism and at least the majority form of hyperthyroidism.

We in the UK probably have inadequate selenium - especially since our wheat sources switched away from (high selenium) north American wheat. And anyway, a significant proportion of hypothyroid sufferers shun wheat (whether coeliac, wheat intolerant, or simply feel better without it).

My own eyesight improved by correction of thyroid hormone levels.

I have supplemented with selenium (100 micrograms per day) but have never noticed even the slightest change that I feel I can attribute to the selenium.

[Chris Hogg]

been a good idea to take some. It certainly

derives from low selenium intake.

Brazil nuts are a good source of selenium. One per day is said to provide all the selenium needed by the average adult.

[polygonum]

Postgrad Med. 2002 Apr;111(4):87-8, 91-2.

Endocrine origins of rheumatic disease. Diagnostic clues to interrelated syndromes.

Lockshin MD.

Source

Barbara Volcker Center, Hospital for Special Surgery, Cornell University Joan and Sanford I. Weill Medical College, Graduate School of Medical Sciences, New York, NY, USA.

Abstract

Heightened awareness of endocrine abnormalities is important in evaluation of patients presenting with musculoskeletal symptoms. Endocrine disorders such as diabetes, hyperthyroidism, hypothyroidism, hyperparathyroidism, hypoparathyroidism, hyperadrenocorticism, and acromegaly cause a unique array of rheumatic manifestations. Such conditions include Dupuytren's contracture, carpal tunnel syndrome, chondrocalcinosis, pseudogout, scleredema, and osteoporosis. Characteristic changes on radiologic evaluation and serum enzyme testing are additional clues to these atypical presentations. Consideration of a possible endocrine cause early in the evaluation may improve management in patients with such an underlying disorder.

PMID: 11985136

[Bob Eager]

Trigger finger is completely different - but much more easily fixed.

BTDTGTTS - and my surgeon had had it himself so had useful tips to follow afterwards.

[Brian Gaff]

Well I'd never known what it was called, but I suspect from the description, most of us know at least one person who suffers from it as they get older. Obviously getting it young is unfortunate, but its pretty common and so seems to be surgery to fix it cos most people live with it for a time and by then that is the only way forward.

I guess men just hate going to doctors!

I am free of it, in fact I have a kind of opposite issue wher some of my finger joints over deviate, whch makes some people wince for some reason. Brian

[tony sayer]

JOOI what do you think worked best out of that lot Terry?...

[Geoff Pearson]

But not permanently fixed - I have had surgery on one finger and that has come back, I am on my second and last steroid injection on several others and they are coming back.