The incombustibility of freshly cut elm

[Dave Baker]

For the last few months me and a mate have been tittivating the garden in the new house. Mainly cutting down trees I don't want and lopping those I do down to a sensible height. Him with his chainsaw and me operating the oil drum incinerator we made to get rid of the smaller branches. The main trunks and big branches are being left to dry for firewood in a couple of years time.

The five 30 foot tall fir trees (scots pine I think) running alongside the garage were the first to go. They were blocking the sunlight from the garden in the afternoon and also dropping needles and cones on the garage roof which then blocked the gutter. Those branches burned like crazy with all the oils in them even though there was also lots of water. I could barely get them into the incinerator fast enough. Flames were shooting out of it 6 feet high. The beech wasn't too bad either even freshly cut. No major trouble getting a fire started but much slower going than the pine. I'd have to leave each incinerator load for 15 or 20 minutes to burn down before it was ready for more.

Today I attacked the current pile of little elm branches from last weekend's chainsawing and for the first time I failed miserably to even start a fire in the incinerator. Lots of paper, plenty of the smallest elm twigs broken up and in desperation cup after cup of paraffin which flared up nicely each time for a couple of minutes but once that had burned off the sodding branches fizzled out again. I gave up after an hour of trying. I have concluded that freshly cut elm is one of the most incombustible materials known to science.

I bet it's a cracking firewood when it's fully dry. Probably burns slowly for ages giving out loads of heat. I think I'm going to have to try another tack tomorrow. Get the incinerator stinking hot with something else first like maybe some of the already dry firewood in the wood store and then hope that'll dry the water out of the elm branches enough as they burn to keep it going.

[chris French]

In message , Dave Baker writes

Not for nothing do the rhymes go:

Elmwood burns like churchyard mould Even the very flames are cold

or

Elm logs like smouldering flax, No flame to be seen.

:-)

Elm has a very high water content, hence the reluctance to burn when green. It's not a great wood, even when well seasoned, but it's ok.

[Chris Hogg]

You have (had) an elm? I thought they were all killed off by Dutch elm disease in the 1970's.

[Farmer Giles]

As someone has already pointed out, elm is a very poor firewood. But are you sure that's what it is? Elm was virtually wiped out by Dutch Elm Disease years ago.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Round here they go 10-12 years and then die

But I HAVE seen one a bit older than that.

Its possible that the cold period of the 18th 19th century killed the bugs and that's why they flourished.

They are crap burning though.

[Dave Baker]

They havenae died oot up here in Aberdeenshire. Seems the cauld weather inhibits the wee bugs and we still hae a fair passel o' them.

[Farmer Giles]

Ok, I didn't know that. Down here I haven't seen an elm tree for many years.

[Clive George]

There's a fair bit of it about - they last a few years, then die. I lopped one in our garden last year for that reason - over a foot across, so no sapling.

[Dave Baker]

Haeing said that I dinnae ken how long we'll still hae them. This global warruming malarky is making it awfie warrum up here the noo. Nae snae this winter at all so far but jings it's been blaeing fit to burst for weeks on end. Gale force winds day aftie day which is partly why I wanted to lop the tall trees near the hoose in case they blae o'er ontae it. Dinnae want to wake up withoot ma roof one morn. The wee elm bugs will maybe spread up here noo it's so warrum. Still, better warrum and fine summers wie nae elms than cauld and dreich wi' them. It's been guy dreich since November wi' rain and wind right through Christmas and January but nae problem here up on the hillside where nae flooding can tak place. The watter jist runs awa doon the hill intae the river a mile awa. Pity those poor sods in Somerset though.

[chris French]

There are (or were when I lived there in the late 80's) plenty in Brighton/hove. it seems the South downs help to isolate the town and make control easier

IIRC lots of the trees that where blown down and damaged in the 1987 storm around the Level and other central open areas were Elm.

Other local populations ahve survived, eg in East Anglia some of the Smooth elm seem to have some kind of resistance and so small popualtions ahve survived in some areas.

In Scotland and NW England, the climate has inhibited the spread, and also, the tree's are predominantly Wych elm, which seems less susceptible to the disease, though it continues to spread.

In the South, so many trees were killed that the beetle died out in that area. Suckers form the roots of some of the 'dead' trees gradually grew back in the 80's and 90's etc.. Eventually the trees got big enough and there were enough of them for the beetles to move back in.

AIUI, this process of new growth followed by disease as they get old enough is still ongoing, so there are still trees around, but younger and not so many As there used to be.

[News]

In message , Dave Baker writes

Not quite so warm this morning! -3 here on Deeside, although the winter has been extremely mild, but plenty of time yet.

Talking firewood, I am convinced that, a few years ago, someone here wrote a treatise on UK trees and their suitability as firewood. Hardness, drying times, burnability etc. Does that ring any bells with anyone?

[harryagain]

If it's elm, it is virtually impossible to split with an axe. You have to cut it in all directions with the chain saw. Needs mixing with other wood to burn. It was used for wagon wheel hubs for that reason. Also for underwater timber piles and boat keels.

All wood need to be thoroughly dry to burn efficiently.

[Tim Lamb]

Still plenty in Hertfordshire. As TNP says they grow from uninfected roots for about 12-15 years and then die.

Concur on the burning characteristics. Highlight of my youth was watching my neighbours father struggling to get their bonfire alight. Usually resorting to petrol drained from their Austin 7 and singed eyebrows. Ours, constructed over a much longer period, with a leavening of Hawthorn and judiciously placed scrap tyres, was never a problem.

[Vir Campestris]

AIUI it's a really good wood, especially in places that are going to get wet. Canal lock gates are a classic - I'd think it would be good for fence posts.

Andy

[Tim Lamb]

Not here.

Traditionally posts were made from *easy splitting* stuff. I suppose if you had to pay sawyers you would use the results for valuable work such as building.

Locally, Hornbeam, Chestnut and Oak. Once preservative treatment (creosote) linked with cheap imported sawn lumber became available, Cedar post and rail took over. (I still have some dating from the '30's)

Traditional agricultural tenancy agreements often included a clause specifying whether and what size timber could be taken from farm hedgerows.

[news]

Yes elm is just below willow and poplar in the hardwoods and similar to softwoods for moisture content, about 60% of the green weight is water. Oak is about 47% and ash can be as low as 33% but some I recently cut down seem to be just short of 40%.

Elm dries slowly and is cross grained, resisting splitting (which is why it was used in chair bottoms).

After dying from disease it often stands dead for a few years and dries out which makes it as good a firewood as anything.

AJH

[Rick Hughes]

ELM no good for firewood if I remember correctly form the mass culling when Dutch Elm decimated UK

[John Williamson]

Whether it burns well or not, and IME it doesn't, it is *the* wood to use in a situation where wet and dry conditions alternate or exist on either side of the wood. For this reason it was used for narrowboat hulls bottoms when they were either completely of wood or combined with iron sides, and I've seen century old elm planks still in perfect condition in narrowboat bottoms. Apart from a bit of wear where stuff's been thrown in and shovelled out, that is.