That ceiling again...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

As I said in an earlier post part of the lath and plaster ceiling in the hallway has come down. Having a careful look at the rest it's not too brilliant either - not surprising given it's over 100 years old. It covers underneath the stairs to the first floor and half landing, then up to the main landing - along that and then across and up to a further half landing, and I think I might as well replace the lot. I'm thinking to get as true a surface as I can with plasterboard before having it professionally skimmed I'll remove the laths too. Any comments?

Remembering Lidl had plasterboard supports earlier this week I nipped out hoping they still had them - and they did. Look excellent value at under a tenner each - nicely made. Load 80 kg. Strange instructions - do not work under the supported whatever. ;-)

[NOSPAMnet]

Removing a lot of L+P will (probably) be (1) A messy, dusty job and you'll have a lot of waste to shift ,(2) a lot of nails to remove as L+P was very "nails intensive"

What you could consider is nailing or screwing battens ( not battons :-) )across the joists at appropriate centres( relative to the size of boards you intend using ) if you can determine where they are then fixing plasterboard with drywall screws to those battens .

[meow2222]

The usual method is to pour diluted pva on top of the ceiling and prop it up a few days while it sets.

L&P removal makes the mess from hell out of everything, and you'll need a full redec. Plus you'll need t clear everything out first etc... not a lotta contest really. Plus L&P ceilings give better noiseproofing than PB.

NT

[Lobster]

You mean pull the entire ceiling down over the whole hallway to expose the joists? If so, a job to be avoided at all costs unless you want to be cleaning dust out of your every orifice for the rest of the year...

David

[stuart noble]

I'd put some heavy duty lining paper up to hold it in place. Anything to avoid lath and plaster removal! If you do remove it, try and do the whole thing in a day (no matter how many mates you have to enlist). Clearing up once is bad enough

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Already cleared up the large chunk that came down and it wasn't too bad. I have a large industrial vacuum. However, the last thing I want is to repair that section, redecorate, and have it happen somewhere else later.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Indeed. However the nails should be easy to remove as the heads won't be flush with the joists.

Sticking plasterboard over the existing ceiling would look a bodge. Because of the stairs you'd see the edge in several places - unlike a room where there is a wall.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

That would be fine if you could get to the other side - but you can't were it's under the stairs.

That's on the cards anyway.

But I don't want problems later.

Not really much of a consideration on hall and landings.

[ARWadworth]

So rip it down and replace it. I would.

Seal all the doors into your rooms before you start. Downstairs ceilings are not as bad as upstairs ones for the dirt and dust.

Adam

[Rob]

I'm having to do something similar, and I'm pretty sure the architect suggested battens over original l&p ceiling.

There is something that doesn't feel right about hanging that weight (two ceilings) and that mess from joists.

That aside, there was an urban myth going around when I was faced with this in my old London home - late 19C terrace - about anthrax in the l&p mix. Just to cheer you up! In any case it's just the filthiest job.

Rob

[Andrew Gabriel]

If you have any fancy plaster coving you want to keep, leave the laths up (carefully cutting through the plaster only) and fix plasterboard through the laths to the joists. Chose plasterboard thickness to correctly line up with the coving in this case, with a couple of mm for skimming.

Note that the ceiling above the plaster may not be flat. In the days of lath and plaster ceilings, it was the plasterer's job to create a flat ceiling by varying the thickness of plaster. When fitting plasterboard, you may need shims on the bottoms of some joists to make it flat, depending on the age of the house.

You might want to have a chat to your plasterer before fitting the boards. The way I prefer them fitted if I'm plastering is to butt the board edges together if those edges are screwed to the same timber, and to leave a 1/4" gap between board edges which are not screwed along that edge to the same timber. Plaster (ideally, bonding coat) is then forced through the 1/4" gaps to bond the board edges, which you can't do as effectively when butted together.

Of course, whilst the ceiling is dowm, review the provision of lighting points, other mains wiring, phone, network, and any other services you might want to stuff up there.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced.

Anything with a roof void above tends to be bad news. Already went through that with the bathroom years ago.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

That could work in a room where the ceiling meet walls all round - and you don't mine losing some height. But with some parts of this one you can see the edge - under the staircase etc - and it would look plain daft being a couple of inches lower. Nor do I want to lose any height.

Yes - it's a bodge whatever way you look at it.

I thought anthrax came from sheep and it was horsehair that was used to reinforce plaster? Not that there's any sign of that in the part which fell down.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

No coving in this part of the house.

That's why I thought removing the laths would make it easier - the laths on show after the fall look all over the place. The joists *must* be more square since the floors are ok. And if I'm going to make a mess by removing old plaster I might as well go the whole hog.

OK - I'll remember that. Hopefully a plasterer recommended by a neighbour will be round to advise on what he wants before I do the plasterboard.

It will allow a light in a place previously not practical. Everything else is already catered for.

[Dave Liquorice]

Have a (gentle!) tap around with the handle of a screwdriver. Do any other bits sound hollow (blown)? If so it might be worth hastening their decent to the floor.

I'm assuming the bit that came down was just the plaster leaving the laths and broken knibs attached to the joists. If the laths have come down as well I'd want to know why, Nail rot?

[Steve Firth]

What about batons, would they work?

[Lobster]

A now-retired joiner I know told me that his first job when he first started work was to cut laths - it was routinely done by the apprentice (in between making the tea) wielding a hatchet! So hardly surprising that there's a bit of variation in thickness...

David

[Lobster]

Nah, someone would be bound to c*ck things up if they were used.

David

[Rod]

Definitely can occur in horses. And lots of other animals.

[meow2222]

not hard to drill some holes in the plaster - I've never tried doing it from below, but it would be so much quicker and easier that I'd def give that a go. Including some (lime) plaster in the mix would thicken the slurry and enable it to not all falll out the hole, or the dilute pva could be sprayed upwards under pressure.

right. Still a lot of extra work tho.

PVAing is a permanent repair.

NT