temperature valves on all taps

[Doctor Drivel]

TMVs have been in the air for legislation for a few years. Nothing to do with men or women, etc. Do you think it was Jewish MP as well? Maybe black too.

[Doctor Drivel]

[Doctor Drivel]

[Doctor Drivel]

[Bob Eager]

But descaler is cheap these days.

[Bob Eager]

[Guy King]

The message from "Bob Eager" contains these words:

Don't forget he's not terribly bright.

[Matt]

That sort of makes sense - apart from the fact the hot water will probably have cooled since the last use, maybe even down to room temperature and all you will get is something slightly warmer than the raw cold supply. Unless you instantly heat at the tap I can't really see water usage falling. Seeing as thermostatic shower valves at hugely greater prices fail to stop an average combi from alternately freezing and near scalding due to "other tap usage" I can't see a 30 quid TMV having much chance. :)

[Roger]

The message from John Stumbles contains these words:

That was the intention.

[Ed Sirett]

More like £50 for an entire house.

I've had a feeling that this would be on the cards sooner or later.

[Ed Sirett]

The HW would be set to around 50C. I'm fitting one at a shop next week which I'll probably set to around 55C.

[The Reid]

Following up to Bob Eager

scolded, scaled, anything but scalded, what is it with this word?

[nightjar]

...

There are several different types of thermostatic mixer valves and I doubt the Screwfix ones meet the NHS Estates specifications. Hospitals and nursing homes require tamper-proof, high flow rate, failsafe TMV3 scheme valves. I suspect that domestic installations would not be required to meet those standards, in which case I could shift a few old stock items. I wonder if I could persuade the government that homes with children also need low surface temperature radiator covers? I sell those too.

Colin Bignell

[Guy King]

The message from Ed Sirett contains these words:

They were saying 40 on the radio yesterday.

[John Stumbles]

True, but even so the chill effect of a spray is less than that of a running tap so a lot of times people will be happy to wash under the tepid/cool/cold[1] water rather than wait for it to warm up. Even so I think there's room for improvement long-term in the infrastructure: with mains-pressure H & C water supplies and low-consumption spray taps there's no need for 15mm pipework: runs could be in 10mm saving a lot in dead-leg runoff. One could even envision lagged pipe (perhaps lagging ready-fitted on the roll[2]) for convenience and encouragement of installers. Of course that wouldn't happen overnight but it's a direction worth moving in.

I'm just saying that for the relatively modest level of technology and expense[3] it seems like a good water and energy saving measure at a time when the planet we're attempting to conserve for our children could do with all the help it can get in these departments.

[1] and not just Yorkshire-folks: when I were a lad in Wales we'd often wake up to frost on the inside of the windows. [2] assuming plastic pipework here: again, less cooling and more compatible with current construction practices. [3] most of the price of taps is markup: compare the prices in posh bathroom showrooms, sheds, Screwfix/Toolstation and on eBay. You can get a quite decent thermostatic shower mixer valve from the online sheds for half the price of a pair of fancy-looking but otherwise bog-standard basin taps.

[John Stumbles]

"NHS TMV3 Scheme Approved"

Yes? But presumably these reduce the output of the rads? Even so more info please as our school has a requirement under H&S

[Aidan]

No, Drivel, I am not.

It is explained in the post, which you do not seem to have understood.

You should NOT have a mixed DHWS distribution system because the safe temperature, i.e., below 46 degC, will allow the proliferation of legionella bacterium. The storage in, and distribution from, the cylinder should be at 60 degC and it is mixed by TMVs at the point of use.

If you don't believe me, the look at the diagrams on the TMVA's website, e.g.,

show TMVs at the point of use; they do not show whole house mixers.

You are confused by the TMVs on the thermal stores that you are so fond of recommending, but which you also do not seem to understand. The primary water in a thermal store is at 80 degC ish, and the secondary DHWS could be initially discharged at this temperature. I think you will find the TMVs on such thermal stores are set to mix the DHWS to about 57 or 60 degC.

Legionella kills people.

May I suggest that you go away and learn something about the subject, before you spout your misinformed nonsense to people who might not realise that you are talking s**te.

[Matt]

I blame tory education cuts 1979-1997, the national curriculum and chav parents. :)

[manatbandq]

And earlier in the thread:

;-)

[Will Dean]

There's nothing I enjoy more than a good troll-inspired Usenet debate, but I'm afraid I can't be bothered to carry it out entirely in smileys/ascii-art.

But I will leave you with this one:

^&0-=

Will