Know I'm an old fart but I can't see the point of them - given the cost. I can indeed see the point of push to fit plastic where speed and cost is the only thing that matters - but not copper. Given that you're already geared up to use end feed? Can't really see any advantage over compression where you might want to disassemble later.
Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:
Only in the area of less testing/checking.
I tend to regard pushfit as OK as long as you shove it home and it was clean to start with.
I do worry with compression and solder so tend to spent more time doing and double checking. - it's not I can't do them (I can) it's just theres a little more to go wrong in a dark and confined space.
Price wise - have you seen the price of Sprint? 80p for a coupler - not breaking the bank and typically about twice the price of a decent end feed, according to screwfix.
I was surprised - I was expecting 3 quid for a Tectite fitting of any description.
Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:
I got a tectite sprint and a couple of cuprofit fittings from Screwfix today.
The tectite is OK, but the cuprofit seems very good, mainly because it can be demounted[1], the range is good and it's pretty solid when assembled. Looks quite nice too, nicer than a compression fitting but less sleek than an end feed solder joint...
Seems cheaper than JG Speedfit(!)
[1] It's not as easy to demount as JG, but it can at least be done...
How often do you think you'll need to 'dismount' a connection? My experience says virtually never - unless modifying things where it makes no difference if it's compression or soldered.
Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:
Don't know Dave. I've dismounted and farted around with my temporary pipes many times...
But - the price is pretty much the same, so the extra feature is free, so why not. You never know... Wonder why Pegler didn't do the same - Cuprofit is virtually the same basic design...
Anyway, I'm being open minded... If I decide I want to push fit copper, I have a favourite now.
Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:
Yes - JG Speedfit. Pressure tested to 10 bar too! The only two things that put me off plastic are mice eating it (very possible where I am) and the fighting to get it to look nice on long straight runs.
That's fair enough. I usually find with compression that x % weep so I have to run around and check everything, twice(!). Soldering is OK - perhaps I haven't done enough soldering to have full confidence in my work - most of mine has been done in highly accessible locations or on the bench. However that all worked, except where I turned on the water too soon with an end feed stopend on the end of a still hot pipe and the resultant steam blew it off (that episode made me slightly wary).
Push fit does seem to have the advantage that if the pipe is smooth and pushed home fully (easy to check) then it's pretty much guaranteed to work. The disadvantage is the fact that the joint is reliant on a little soft o-ring which can't possibly to my mind last forever.
I guess the thing to do with any system is fill it with water then pressure test it to 50% over working pressure. If that doesn't leak then the job's probably good...
"Quality" compression joints with a smear of decent compound do not weep. Cheap fitting will. S/fix sell Conex now.
They are the most problematic of fittings and I would avoid them as failure can be catastrophic. The plastic pipe is OK, when quality compression joints are used.
Are you using decent quality ones, and making sure the pipe is clean and scratch free? Compression fittings are a pretty universal way of coupling pipes carrying all sorts of things as well as water and shouldn't leak if properly made and tightened.
Crikey. I've known this to make the fitting leak as the steam pushes past the still soft solder - but not actually to blow off. ;-)
Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:
Indeed, Pegler fitting and brand new copper. It didn't weep when I tightened it up again - my point is not a complaint over compression, just that they can take longer when you don't do it every day.
Yep - 7.5 bar hitting instantaeously from this nearby 1/4 turn valve. Funny thing is I reacted so fast I turne dthe valve off before much more than steam came out!
On 24 June, 13:56, Tim S wrote: Despite forgetting to put the inserts in on the
I did that the first time I used them - on 10mm Hep2O that need to be run, buried in plaster, to a bay window radiator.
Been in for years now, but I do keep expecting wet patches to appear. : (
I'm a bit alarmed by some Dr Drivel's comments - I just used a 15mm Hep2O elbow that I had lying around for the mains feed to the cistern in my cloakroom refit. The elbow is in the garage through so at least it wouldn't do any damage in the house! Perhaps I should change it - or at least wrap it up!
On cold they are not too bad as they do not go soft with heat. The problem is many: corroded grab rings, and when there is a water shock, slammed off, they can jump off as the grab ring fails. I have known Hep2O jump off the end of a pipe. read the link I gave. Not nice reading. That is just one thread about the stuff. There are many if you search. I would remove and fit a compresion joint using copper olives and wrapped in PTFE. If plastic pipe keep the metal insert. It will cost a £1 or so and a 15 mins at most.
This sort of plastic piping is banned in the USA because of catastrophic failures:
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the Pipes Fail?
While scientific evidence is scarce, it is believed that oxidants in the public water supplies, such as chlorine, react with the polybutylene piping and acetal fittings causing them to scale and flake and become brittle. Micro-fractures result, and the basic structural integrity of the system is reduced. Thus, the system becomes weak and may fail without warning causing damage to the building structure and personal property. It is believed that other factors may also contribute to the failure of polybutylene systems, such as improper installation, but it is virtually impossible to detect installation problems throughout an entire system.
Throughout the 1980's lawsuits were filed complaining of allegedly defective manufacturing and defective installation causing hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. Although the manufacturers have never admitted that poly is defective, they have agreed to fund the Class Action settlement with an initial and minimum amount of $950 million. You'll have to contact the appropriate settlement claim company to find out if you qualify under this settlement.
"A series of reports have suggested that increased use of choloramines accelerates corrosion and degradation of some metals and elastomers common to distribution plumbing and appurtenances.
With regard to elastomers, the study showed that with few exceptions, solutions of chloramines (either monochloramine or dichloramine) produced greater material swelling, deeper and more dense surface cracking, a more rapid loss of elasticity, and greater loss of tensile strength than equivalent concentrations of free chlorine."
----Steven Reiber, HDR Engineering, American Water Works Association Research Foundation
Don't be. He had a bad experience once (google for hacksaw in this context). And/or the medication wore off. Or his sister wouldn't date him anymore. I don't know...
He comes out with some interesting product citations and insights from time to time, but this isn't one of those times.
But we don't hate him - he's part of the furniture round here :)
Anyway, JG Speedfit, Tectite and Cuprofit all have the grab rings on the outside, so corrosion should not be a problem.
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