Tap and Die for thread repair

I have a Waterfront brass paper holder C240 in antique gold, cost new

160

'Paper Holder - C240 | Waterfront Designer Bathrooms'

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with a worn out thread in the screwed union inside the ball between the bar parallel to the wall and the bar perpendicular to the wall.

I don't know the exact thread but I'll try to find out.

Since I am not familiar with tap and die sets, but I am willing to learn, what is the way to use a tap and die set to repair these threads?

If I use the same diameter as the original one, will I gain anything by rethreading?

If I use a smaller diameter in the male thread, then the female thread will be too big.

I have seen in You Tube that bolts with worn out thread are rethreaded successfully by using the same thread die.

Or do I have to use a thread repair kit like

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Thanks,

Antonio

Reply to
asalcedo
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Personally I'd have gone for the polyester resin first, if the material is soft enough to have worn the first time surely it will do so again?

Reply to
Lee

Very expensive for something that should never wear out then!

Boggle! How did you wear it out?

My money would be on a filled epoxy repair.

Reply to
Martin Brown

Firstly, I'm a little taken aback at spending £160 on a toilet roll holde r! And at that price, I would expect it to outlast 100 generations of Andrex p uppies.

As it hasn't, I'd suspect it's made of monkey metal, and retheading will ge t you nowhere. Use epoxy.

Reply to
dom

Sure it's not solid gold at that price?

Whatever. If the female thread has failed but the male one ok, a helicoil repair would be the best way to go.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

In uPVC windows industry gold fittings were always brass coating ones, but customers were always told that they were gold.

Reply to
Bob H

Quite. Once in place nothing needs to unscrew on a regular basis unless the design is wrong. ie the gap between inner face of ball on the end of the arm and wall is too small to a allow a standard full bog roll to simply slide on.

The other possibilty is that it's been installed the wrong way up so the weight of the bog roll tends to unscrew the standoff bar from the joint ball.

As for paying £160 for it, boggle again. B-)

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Not really - that will clean up threads with minor damage or those that are partly blocked with debris.

Normally if you have a machine screw fitting into a tapped hole, and the hole has enlarged and the thread been damaged, you would redrill the hole larger, and re-tap it one size up. Then use a large diameter bolt.

That works where the male thread is undamaged...

If you have a pair of threads where both sides are worn, then it becomes harder to fix properly. An epoxy fix would be simpler (perhaps a metal loaded one like JB Weld)

If you really want to go to town, then drill out the female thread, and then turn down an insert so its a press fit into the hole. Fit that then redrill and retap to the original spec. For the male bit either turn it down, sleeve and re-thread it, or braise / silver solder onto it, turn it to the major diameter, and then rethread it.

(this all assumes you have a lathe to hand!)

Reply to
John Rumm

Actually the male thread is the one that is worst.

Yes, I have seen the helicoil repair kits. They are good to know.

Can I rethread the male thread to a slightly smaller thread and use a helicoil repair kit for that new size?

Reply to
asalcedo

Hi John, your knowledge is vast!

I have one more idea:

What about filing down the existing male thread to the maximum possible smooth diameter, let say it is M7 (I think it is going to be around M7) and then rethreading the male end to M7 using an M7 die from my tap and die set

'Laser 4554 Metric Tap & Die Set 110pc: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike'

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drill a hole into the second ball of the paper holder and tap an M7 thread into it?

Since the original ball will have the hole facing the wall it will not be noticed at all.

Question

Will I need to file down the worn out male thread to a very precise, smooth and centered cylindrical shape?

I would think that using a hand file should be good enough.

Reply to
asalcedo

The house came with Waterfront and Lefroy Brooks bathroom accessories. They have lasted at least 20 years and still going strong.

That particular Waterfront toilet paper holder looks and feels really good and solid.

It is heavy and it is unavoidable that over the years and given the high leverage any impact at the end of the holder could have over tightened the thread.

I installed once a cheaper towel ring and the plating rusted away in no time.

It is expensive though, I agree. Thus the interest in the repair (and the fun of learning about tapping metal).

Reply to
asalcedo

Often the case.

No. There may be some thread repair inserts that allow this. However, a smaller thread than original will simply give trouble more quickly than the original.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

What about the other idea that I repeat here:

Filing down the existing male thread to the maximum possible smooth diameter, let say it is M7 (I think it is going to be around M7) and then rethreading the male end to M7 using an M7 die from my tap and die set

Laser 4554 Metric Tap & Die Set 110pc

Then drill a hole into the second ball of the paper holder and tap an M7 thread into it?

Since the original ball will have the hole facing the wall it will not be noticed at all.

I understand that since I have reduced the male thread it will not be as strong but, it should be good enough for a number of years.

Question

Will I need to file down the worn out male thread to a very precise, smooth and centered cylindrical shape?

Reply to
asalcedo

Na that's my waistline ;-)

Yup, you might manage that - it will be hard getting a consistent diameter on the filed bit - although if you spin it and hold the file you might manage.

Yup that would be ok. You would need a drill bit that matches the minor diameter of a M7 thread (which I have a feeling is 6mm, which makes life easy ;-)

Drilling a ball shaped surface will take a little doing though. Start by centre punching a starting dent. Then use a small drill for the first hole (better still a proper centre drill), before working up to the required size.

It would help. But with care you may be able to do it by hand.

If you were to grip the end of the male thread in a chuck in a drill, then spin the exposed threaded section against the file, that will get that bit consistent. You can then hand file the last bit using the "spun" section as a guide.

Reply to
John Rumm

Yeap, I'm ready now. And I have a feeling that it will be a job well done.

I will do it somewhere else where I have a pillar drill and a few other tools

Thank you.

Reply to
asalcedo

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