Suggestions for standard drill - keyed / keyless

[David Robinson]

My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power for hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also having two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e. selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from nothing up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action - all the standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool lasted 20 years...

they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers, David.

[Chris J Dixon]

Whilst keyless chucks are convenient, the ones I have require a button to be depressed, preventing shaft rotation, whilst the chuck is tightened. At the moment I can do this OK, but I have a slight worry that if my thumb grip ever weakens, I'll have trouble getting it fully tight.

Chris

[Spamlet]

We discussed this topic not long ago, and this is the first I have heard of a keyless chuck with a button on it?

Summing up what was said last time, there are several different types of keyless chuck. Some seem to just rely on brute force to tighten them, whilst others have a better ratcheting action that clicks as you tighten them These hold better than the basic ones and are more expensive, but unless you are using hammer a lot, even the cheap type is up to the job of most drilling and screwing tasks.

The OP should keep the chucks from his old drills as spares: then he will have the best of both worlds.

S

[dom]

Have a look at the Bosch GBH2-26DFR

's a mains sds drill with an interchangeable keyless chuck. Lift a collar to pop off either the sds or keyless chuck, push on the other chuck. No need to even remove the bit currently in the chuck. The keyless chuck is the best I've seen anywhere on a handheld drill (only industrial pedestal drills have better IME).

Note that you want the DFR model, not the DRE - which comes without the keyless chuck.

(My experience is with the older GBH2-24 model, which I've owned for

10 years - but I beleive the newer model is just restyling and a better mains lead).

[dom]

Nice video of the chuck change here:

[Jules Richardson]

I've got a DeWalt mains (well, 120VAC here in the US ;) drill which has a keyless chuck, and I must say that I've been impressed with it so far.

I've had it for around 4 years now and it sees almost daily use, with a variety of materials and drill bits, and I think in that time I've only had it lose grip on me a couple of times (and then just because I was being lazy about tightening it, rather than it being a wear or design issue)

Yes, it'll take normal wood bits happily - anything up to around 1/2" in diameter.

In principle, I like the idea of a keyed chuck better, but on a hand drill I'd like a way of stowing the key with the drill, rather than having to keep it separately in a pocket, toolbox etc. - maybe they all do that now though (my last mains drill with a chuck key was some ancient B&D thing from nineteen-seventy-mumble)

[The Medway Handyman]

> It's a mains sds drill with an interchangeable keyless chuck. Lift a

Looks lurvely.. but not 'mid range' pricewise & a bit on the 'long' side..

I've got a Hitachi Fdv16vb2 Hammer Drill 550w which is superb. Compact, light, bloody powerful, excellent keyless chuck, useful case.

Picked it up in B&Q for about £55, not sure if they still do them.

[Tabby]

I was in the same situation several months ago, and reached quickly for the online catalogues. But was advised that since I had an SDS and a cordless, I probably wouldnt need a vanilla mains drill. Well, I do, but my ancient standby drill seems to have filled the need fine - its a more limited need due to the other 2 tools, so I must be one of very few people on here that's gone back to using a 1960s mains drill. Between the 3 tools it seems I can do it all.

NT

[dom]

The only "fill-in" I found I needed between various cordless drills/ drivers and my sds-with-interchangeable-chuck, was something with really high torque to driver large auger bits into wood.

I ended up with a keyed-chuck dewalt mixer-drill. Superb device, but quite a price for a niche-use.

I wished I had been able to buy the Wickes high torque drill (actually a rebadged Kress), but that reputed-gem had been discontinued.

[Chris J Dixon]

Sorry, my wording was sloppy. I have a couple of drills, both of which have a button on the drill body to stop the shaft rotating whilst the chuck is tightened.

Chris

[mike]

Maybe I've been lucky but I've not experienced the problems that reputedly bedevil keyless chucks - even on cheap drills.

If you're not in a hurry, I'd look for an offer on a rebadged Kress at Wickes. The one-handed keyless chuck on that is excellent.

[robgraham]

Useful thread on chuck types. I recently bought an older style bench drill (Fobco Star) which is fitted with a 3/8" Jacobs chuck. I decided to look at getting a 1/2" chuck and thought I'd better check the thread first so I walloped it one to unscrew it and the chuck nearly lost itself in the darkest corner of the workshop when it flew off - it's on a taper mount !

I asked a knowledgeable mechanical engineer yesterday and his opinion was to go with a keyless reckoning on about =A330 for the chuck. But then I'm not going to be using it in reverse. Rob

[The Other Mike]

You sure its a drill and not a router? :)

[Tabby]

Thats exactly what my oldie has spent most of its time doing. Despite being 2 hundred and something watts, it drives a 1" auger into tough wood without any hesitation. So far I've even managed without the reverse function, as I've mostly been drilling until the hole goes through. For the occasional blind hole, manual rotation of the bit half to 1 turn has been enough to unstick it. I was surprised it does an inch auger, but it does it easily.

NT

[Chris J Dixon]

PSB 700 RES

Chris

[dom]

d

I guess making a gearbox to gear down a motor to really low-revs/high- torque is expensive - particularly if it's built to last.

[John Rumm]

Good keyless chucks are fine IME. The one on my Makita 18V combi grips as well as any keyed chuck I have used (although note I have never tried a ballraced keyed chuck). Its a single handed one, ratchet action (drill has an auto spindle lock), made by Rhom.

The two handed ones with counter rotation rings and no ratchet action are less good - but ok on lower power drills.

yup. Round or hex shank.

I have not noticed any difference in forward or reverse gripping power. If you are driving lots of sizeable screws (i.e. 1 1/2" and over) then you might find a cordless impact driver a better choice for that task.

that are still going. Not sure the current crop will have the same longevity!

What are your main intended uses?

[David Robinson]

Thanks.

I fear this is true. Last year I finally gave up on a B+Q plane from

1981 which had been left to rot under a leaking flat roof in the late 1990s yet still worked! Difficult to find the blades and the dust bag rotted through, but otherwise just kept going!

Well, normally I just drill the occasional hole through a brick wall or wooden joist to put a wire or pipe through, and of course put the proverbial shelf up! More recently, I've been building stud-partition walls, putting extractor fans through outside walls, mixing tile cement, and generally thrashing the thing. I'll also be boarding a loft, but expect to use a cordless to drive all those screws in.

So the answer is "whatever comes along in the next ten years" - and I have no way of predicting that!

My normal approach would be to buy some cheap rubbish to see if I liked the thing, and then buy something better if needed. I don't think that will work here - from all the advice on here, it seems likely that a cheap keyless chuck will send me back to a keyed chuck, and a cheap cordless device will send me back to a mains one - whereas a _decent_ keyless, and maybe even cordless, might be spot on. That's a lot of money to spend if it isn't though.

Cheers, David.

[John Rumm]

To be honest you have a few conflicting requirements there - in particular the extractor vent cutting... (and possibly the mixing). One thing to watch on more basic ungeared mains drills is that they can't deliver much torque at low speeds, and more to the point can't cool themselves adequately while doing it. Something with a gearbox as well as electronic speed control does much better in this respect.

Most of those tasks I would do with my Mikita 18V combi - including lighter mixing tasks like a bag of plaster. Using a core drill for a fan vent however I would use my SDS or core drill. Generally I find the 18V is my most used and flexible drill.

Indeed - if going for a cheap tool, then avoid cordless. Decent batteries and chargers are expensive, and without them, performance will always be poor.

Indeed, in the end I bit the bullet and forked out for a decent combi drill five or six years ago. I would have no hesitation in doing so again since it has exceeded my expectations in every way. I am glad I went for the 18V, since it covers the widest possible range of uses, and the incremental increase in size / weight compared to say the 14V is not that large.

[David Robinson]

I've been looking at these two...

Makita 8391DWPE (=A3100, 2 NiCad batteries)

Makita BHP451RFE (=A3250+, 3-speed, 2 Li-Ion batteries)

I think I can do without the third speed, but I'm worried that the NiCad batteries won't last that long, and will cost as much as the drill to replace. But =A3250 for a drill seems a bit mad! I know it's wonderful and everything, but that's a lot of money.

Am I wrong to worry about the NiCad batteries? Or would I be better to buy a cheaper drill but with Li-Ion batteries?

Cheers, David.