Straw Poll "Are you satisfied with hot water from a combi boiler"

No it won't - it hasn't got a large enough store of water at 60C.

Didn't you understand Andy's figures?

No - because it doesn't provide an endless supply of hot water at high flow. It relies on a store considerably smaller than my existing system. When that store runs out it reverts to its continuous rating.

A 'one box' solution with a large enough store would be far too large to install easily. Therefore it makes sense to keep them separate unless you're tight for space which I'm not.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)
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I don't follow fashion. I just give people what they want to a high quality. Quality sells.

Reply to
timegoesby

No, you seem to be giving them what *you* think they want, whilst maximising your profit, apparently...

Reply to
:::Jerry::::

I go by the makers figures. It will deliver 60C to one bath faster than your system, so when are you going to buy one? You said you would. :)

Who has a 60C bath? Do you want third degree burns?

Neither does your stored system. It delivers a higher flow to one bath faster than your system. It will also fill two baths at a realistic temperature that doesn't put you in the burns unit.

This one box is not large at all.

Reply to
timegoesby

You are IMM (aka Dr Drivel) and I claim my 5 pounds....

Reply to
:::Jerry::::

You seem to have fallen into the trap that IMM could never seem to get out of... (not supprising I guess)

If the boiler is providing high flow at high temperature, and runs out of store capacity then the flow rate of hot water draw off rate will have to be reduced to maintain the temperature, and the temperature it maintains will be some 20 degrees cooler. So you are still going to have to adjust the controls on the shower to have it remain as it was before. You will also have to accept a reduction in flow rate if your shower is "thristy".

Reply to
John Rumm

What will transco charge for that? Will the supplier be happy to keep you on a domestic contract with a comercial meter?

I think I would want to see a second independant interlock on that. As you describe it, you have a single point of failure on a safety critical system. Should the flow switch fail (or more likely get sluggish) it could result in a hob being extinguished etc.

I would not expect a small boiler + thermal store (for example) is going to be much bigger than two boilers/multipoints

Reply to
John Rumm

In article , snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com writes

Most housebuilders give this and most of them build crap houses that look good spec wise. I think you're mixing ideals here, its easy to dress something up to sell but that doesn't mean the "discerning" buyer has got something that works for them, many crap products are sold by using glossy brochures, clever specs and salesmanship, I think you give you're buyers too much credit, most housebuyers make their decision long before they have checked that there are mixer taps and "state of the art" water heating systems.

Reply to
David

Maybe to an innocent doing a first time purchase. What you seem to recommend wouldn't suit me. I value performance above style. But try to combine both. But then my job is a sound engineer, and much of the so called quality equipment sells on looks, not sound.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Sigh. I want *my* bath filled to the level I want quickly. Which means mixing hot at 60 degrees and about 30 litres per minute with cold at about the same flow. Which fills *my* bath in about the time it takes to get undressed etc.

You may be happy with a tiny bath filled to a couple of inches as IMM apparently is. I'm not.

And I'm glad I'm not in the market for one of your 'designer' homes. I'll stick to what *I* want, rather than what you *think* I should have.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

It would on my supply which drops to 6l/m on occasions and rarely exceeds 12l/m!!

Regards Capitol

Reply to
Capitol

The store capacity is vast. 380 litres in 10 minutes. That takes some running out.

The 15 litres per minutes is good feeling backup. With 380 litres per minute I can't ever envisage resorting to the 15 litres per minute.

Reply to
timegoesby

run two Tower

Under these conditions, the Rinnai does not work satisfactorily!! Look it up IMM!!

Regards Capitol

Reply to
Capitol

I am to contact Transco soon. There is no such thing as a commercial meter, only commercial tariffs.

IMM went on about U6 meters having an overload capability. That sounds sensible. Any overload would be marginal. All appliances would have a gas pipe back top the meter.

You have missed the point. The Rinnai will give the flow rate for ever. With storage I would require an exceptionally large, expensive, space consuming cylinder or thermal store. Storage will eventually run out, an instant heater will not. It is the application, and finding the appliances to suit, at the right cost, not having prejudices. The Rinnai is brilliant at what it does. Storage is bursty. A lot of flow for a short time, then nothing. The exception is the floor mounted combis, which do both. High flows, then reverts to a combi when the storage has run out. The best of both. Think hard about it. I did because as I had to deliver. It really does focus the mind.

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Reply to
timegoesby

The spec. is *not* clear on the point of the size of the store at all.

Nonsense. You don't have figures for a separate cylinder. Since it is possible to design a storage system component by component, it is possible to achieve virtually whatever performance is wanted.

Except that it doesn't save any usable space at all. The thing is larger than the footprint of a washing machine and taller as well. It's also larger than a domestic cylinder footprint.

I have. The critical information is missing, and the manufacturer feels that the product is light in weight which it isn't.

I am not as easily impressed as you are.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Due to the vagaries of my newsreader, the title of this thread in the summary page reads;

"Subject: Re: Straw Poll "Are you satisfied with Dave Plowman (News)"

Well, yes. Entirely, thank you.

(Seriously, though, we rented a cottage with a combi a few months ago. It was crap.)

Reply to
Huge

Quality sells to anyone. Only the naive, or peopel who only see the bottom line, can't see it.

OK, you don't like quality.

I give both. I guarantee the houses for a year, and this is a great selling point and sells the houses fast. If anything is wrong I fix it. I have have had few call backs, with most being misunderstandings.

I can't comment on the sound field, only what I know about houses, and what people want and sells, in north and north west London in the past

7 years.

Reply to
timegoesby

I didn't say that lies were being told. However, important information is missing from the specifications and there is considerable license in the brochure.

That's neither here nor there.

Untrue. That would assume a temperature increase of 35 degrees. The throughput would be less if a higher temperature than 40 degrees were required in the winter.

I agree. With a properly specified storage system as opposed to a compromise box, it is easily possible to have a plentiful supply.

Meaningless statement unless you specify the flow rate entailed by that.

You would need to define the term "average bath" for that statement to be meaingful.

It has components made from stainless steel. I couldn't see the grade specified.

I'm not saying that at all. However, it is possible to design a proper storage system from high quality components and to exceed the performance of the ACV product comfortably. I know because I've done it.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Most do not at all. 50% of all new homes still have tanks and cylinders taking up the airing cupboard and gravity showers. My buyers would not tolerate such poor performance and clutter.

Soem are crap, yet some are quite decent. You can't generalise.

They look around and see what they are getting. The good points are pointed out to them: Tower Showers at high pressure, boarded lofts with shoot down ladders and lights up there. Downlighters, fully equipped and modern kitchens, fully equipped and modern bathrooms, laminated floors, conservatories, rewired, repiped, and the rest.

These are not new homes, they are oldish houses renovated. I "never" underestimate the buyers. Firstly function. The showers, baths and CH have to perform. Enough sockets about. double glazing, washing machines piped in and the same with dishwashers, lots of space. Then form, decor, modern kitchen and utility room (could be function as well) and bathroom and en-suite (essential these days), which must have modern mixers (modern bathroom taps and mixer sell as they exude quality, I try to fit wall mounted side-on bath mixers), modern lighting which may be downlighters or wall lights on dimmers, no pipes or cables on show, nice plain garden with broad leaf pot plants, quality door handles and quality front door. =20

Just common sense.

Reply to
timegoesby

Which? The cottage, the combi or both?

Reply to
Andy Hall

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